Am Tue, 21 Oct 2014 07:18:26 +0000
schrieb "ROOAR" <youwants@yahoo.com>:

>   So the latest Minecraft apparently runs really really poorly
> because of the GC.
> 
> And it is running on Java desktop. The supposedly "fast" GC of Java can't handle the game anymore--
> 
> https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/2jsrif/optifine_dev_minecraft_18_has_so_many_performance/
>
> Take that GC fanatics

Sorry to rain on the parade, but the original code by Notch seems to be very careful about real-time game requirements. It is not so much that Minecraft got "so big" that it is stalled by garbage collection. It is the way the new code was written (by freshman programmers?) more in terms of buzz words than with practical considerations in mind.

This code would have become slower in any language.

>   D needs more action you know.

Yes I know, you know, we all know. Fortunately improving the GC and @nogc is one of the two development focuses right now.

-- 
Marco

On 21/10/2014 11:24 p.m., Szymon Gatner wrote:
> On Tuesday, 21 October 2014 at 10:15:45 UTC, Rikki Cattermole wrote:
>> On 21/10/2014 10:37 p.m., "Ola Fosheim Grøstad"
>> <ola.fosheim.grostad+dlang@gmail.com>" wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, 21 October 2014 at 09:14:00 UTC, Szymon Gatner wrote:
>>>> Crazy idea: reach pleayerbase of Minecraft. Hit the same problem with
>>>> D. Sell it to Microsoft for 2.5B$. Use the money to support D's
>>>> @nogc ;]
>>>
>>> Great plan! Make a DIP! or:
>>>
>>> 1. mobile chat for Africa, sell to Google for $4B.
>>> 2. world of geekcraft, sell to Microsoft for $8B.
>>> 3. Cobol to D converter, sell to banks for $16B.
>>
>> I'll just put this right here.
>> https://github.com/rikkimax/Dobol
>>
>
> You are not suggesting you sold it for $16B tho, right? ;)

No unfortunately, and not complete. But I more or less did make it ;)

On 21/10/2014 11:25 p.m., ROOAR wrote:
>
>>> 3. Cobol to D converter, sell to banks for $16B.
>>
>> I'll just put this right here.
>> https://github.com/rikkimax/Dobol
>
>   Why? Wait why? Also Cobol looks horrid. Why is it all caps.

Last semester I had an assignment to port some COBOL code to Python.
So of course I did the smart thing. Wrote a compiler to convert it. But for proof of concept straight to D.
My tutor of course didn't like it so never finished it.

But the parser was great for the documentation generation!

On 10/21/14, 2:47 AM, monarch_dodra wrote:
> Hurp, I wonder why GC issues only appear with application that use a GC.
> Hurp-a-durp.
>
> Also, the issue of memory leak and core dumps seem to only appear when
> you use a systems language. How crazy is that?

Happily with a little work D allows you to have both! :)

On Tuesday, 21 October 2014 at 15:23:11 UTC, David Gileadi wrote:
> On 10/21/14, 2:47 AM, monarch_dodra wrote:
>> Hurp, I wonder why GC issues only appear with application that use a GC.
>> Hurp-a-durp.
>>
>> Also, the issue of memory leak and core dumps seem to only appear when
>> you use a systems language. How crazy is that?
>
> Happily with a little work D allows you to have both! :)

Im curious, will D be one of the first languages to have the
ability to use a GC and not use one?

On Tuesday, 21 October 2014 at 16:08:41 UTC, Israel wrote:
> On Tuesday, 21 October 2014 at 15:23:11 UTC, David Gileadi wrote:
>> On 10/21/14, 2:47 AM, monarch_dodra wrote:
>>> Hurp, I wonder why GC issues only appear with application that use a GC.
>>> Hurp-a-durp.
>>>
>>> Also, the issue of memory leak and core dumps seem to only appear when
>>> you use a systems language. How crazy is that?
>>
>> Happily with a little work D allows you to have both! :)
>
> Im curious, will D be one of the first languages to have the
> ability to use a GC and not use one?

More likely: to give you the ability to shoot yourself in the foot both with a GC and without it. ;)

On Tue, 21 Oct 2014 16:16:17 +0000
Francesco Cattoglio via Digitalmars-d <digitalmars-d@puremagic.com>
wrote:

> More likely: to give you the ability to shoot yourself in the foot both with a GC and without it. ;)
wow! so i'll be able shoot away my foot and GC will collect it!

On Tuesday, 21 October 2014 at 16:25:06 UTC, ketmar via
Digitalmars-d wrote:
> On Tue, 21 Oct 2014 16:16:17 +0000
> Francesco Cattoglio via Digitalmars-d <digitalmars-d@puremagic.com>
> wrote:
>
>> More likely: to give you the ability to shoot yourself in the foot both with a GC and without it. ;)
> wow! so i'll be able shoot away my foot and GC will collect it!

YESS!!

On Tuesday, 21 October 2014 at 10:15:45 UTC, Rikki Cattermole wrote:
> I'll just put this right here.
> https://github.com/rikkimax/Dobol

Haha! :-D Cool, or should I say Dool? «Dobol, enjoy the future of the past!»

Banks are having trouble finding Cobol programmers. I'm considering learning both Cobol and old hierarchical databases. :^] Actually, that was a joke, but when I come to think about it it actually makes a lot of sense… Hm.

On Tuesday, 21 October 2014 at 09:56:51 UTC, Szymon Gatner wrote:
> Not quite sure if you mean actual deals (tho 2 mins of googling confirm my suspicion that you are joking ;) but I certainly wasn't:

Yeah, but considering the insane "big is better" valuations we see these days, I thought the business people migh as well use this simple formula:

offer = (last big valuation)*2 ==> 1B, 2B, 4B, 8B, 16B, 32B, 64B.

> With FB I suspect you mean WatsApp for 22B?

Actually I thought about the valuation of FB at 30B, but the WhatsApp purchase is insane! And here I thought SUNs purchase of MySQL for 1B was a bad investment???!??!

In perspective, if FB had tried to sell 19B worth of stock, then the prices would have gone down real fast… It is Monopoly money… :-/

Anyhow, youngsters aren't loyal to technology, only old people are. And they go to the "new and cool places". So these things will shift over time. I guess that is why FB is trying to be cool by investing in stuff like 3D headgear and chats…

On Tuesday, 21 October 2014 at 07:37:06 UTC, Kapps wrote:
> "Maybe the biggest and the ugliest problem is the memory allocation. Currently the game allocates (and throws away immediately) 50 MB/sec when standing still and up to 200 MB/sec when moving. That is just crazy."
>
> Wonder how much better that would be if Java had proper value types. The idea of allocating on the heap for every single Vector3f makes me sad.

That is obviously the problem, and switching to a non GC model would still be horribly slow when you allocate like mad. What they need is way to not allocate that much.

Also http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/mapping-and-modding/minecraft-mods/1272953-optifine-hd-a4-fps-boost-hd-textures-aa-af-and#c43757

People have found that with various tweaks, you can get a x2 framerate.