On Aug 3, 2012, at 12:39 PM, Steven Schveighoffer wrote:

> 
> Also just noticed there's an iPhone app!  cool, must install now.

bleh, it's only github issues.  Nevermind...

-Steve
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On Fri, 3 Aug 2012 12:39:18 -0400
Steven Schveighoffer <schveiguy@yahoo.com> wrote:

> 
> On Aug 2, 2012, at 9:33 PM, Walter Bright wrote:
> 
> > But, as it is with git itself, it's best not to use [github] with Windows or any Windows programs.
> 
> Firefox is a windows program, no?
> 

GitHub is only barely/partially usable in my copy of FF...(Although that's probably not so much the fact that it's FF as which version of FF and how its configured...)

> I suppose it's not really the same, since visual source safe doesn't come with Windows, but still... you went through the trouble of installing git, why wouldn't you consider installing another browser just for github access?

Ick, why should GitHub expect people to do that? A person has already made their choice of browser. GitHub has no business expecting them to use GitHub with *GitHub's* choice of browser. It's a web browser, it should just fucking work.

> Seems like it would be easier than dealing
> with half-assed support from github.
> 
> I have opera installed on my computer just to read the D newsgroups. I don't use it as a browser.  I just think of it as my D newsgroup tool.
> 

I switch over to Opera when I have to deal with GitHub, but I curse
about it every time because I hate Opera (Just not quite as much as Iron(Chrome)).

> Oh, and there's also http://windows.github.com/  Seems like they've done a lot of work since the first release, maybe it's less buggy.
> 

I was excited about that until I tried it. Aside from having an
absolutely wretched UI, it's completely useless. And I do mean
completely useless. It doesn't provide browserless GitHUb access,
instead it's nothing more than a really bad substitute for
TortoiseGit. It's ONLY for dealing with LOCAL repos, not GitHub.
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On Aug 3, 2012, at 3:00 PM, Nick Sabalausky wrote:

> On Fri, 3 Aug 2012 12:39:18 -0400
> Steven Schveighoffer <schveiguy@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> On Aug 2, 2012, at 9:33 PM, Walter Bright wrote:
>> 
>>> But, as it is with git itself, it's best not to use [github] with Windows or any Windows programs.
>> 
>> Firefox is a windows program, no?
>> 
> 
> GitHub is only barely/partially usable in my copy of FF...(Although that's probably not so much the fact that it's FF as which version of FF and how its configured...)

Mine works great!  I wouldn't expect support if you don't use a later version, or one that is crippled.

BTW, I used to have two profiles for firefox, one that disabled flash, and one that had it enabled.  I was sick of stupid web video ads that I didn't care about slowing my system down, so whenever I actually wanted to watch a video, I would start up firefox in the other profile.  It was clunky, but it got the job done.

> 
>> I suppose it's not really the same, since visual source safe doesn't come with Windows, but still... you went through the trouble of installing git, why wouldn't you consider installing another browser just for github access?
> 
> Ick, why should GitHub expect people to do that? A person has already made their choice of browser. GitHub has no business expecting them to use GitHub with *GitHub's* choice of browser. It's a web browser, it should just fucking work.

I don't think you realized the irony of the last sentence there :)

Anyway, I don't think github is built using non-standard extensions to anything, it's just that IE really sucks at adhering to standards.

Every browser has its quirks, you can't expect a company to support them all  including all historic versions of them.  While I think there is a huge business case for supporting IE, since it's a very popular browser, it is truly a pain in the ass to support.  Yeah, I'm sure you don't agree because "CSS sucks", but that's just the way it is.  If you simply accepted this, you may find yourself being a bit less grumpy :)

-Steve
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On Fri, 3 Aug 2012 17:51:02 -0400
Steven Schveighoffer <schveiguy@yahoo.com> wrote:

> 
> On Aug 3, 2012, at 3:00 PM, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, 3 Aug 2012 12:39:18 -0400
> > Steven Schveighoffer <schveiguy@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > 
> >> 
> >> On Aug 2, 2012, at 9:33 PM, Walter Bright wrote:
> >> 
> >>> But, as it is with git itself, it's best not to use [github] with Windows or any Windows programs.
> >> 
> >> Firefox is a windows program, no?
> >> 
> > 
> > GitHub is only barely/partially usable in my copy of FF...(Although that's probably not so much the fact that it's FF as which version of FF and how its configured...)
> 
> Mine works great!  I wouldn't expect support if you don't use a later version, or one that is crippled.
> 

Yea, I don't doubt it would work fine on modern versions of FF. Problem is, I can't stand modern versions of FF ;)

http://tinyurl.com/d7clhya

Funny thing is though, most of the web works just fine even on my "ancient" version of FF, and even with JS off. Imagine that!

Interestingly, the sites that go out of their way to be "modern" and "correct" are the only ones that break. Everything else works perfectly fine on both older *AND* newer browsers.

> BTW, I used to have two profiles for firefox, one that disabled flash, and one that had it enabled.  I was sick of stupid web video ads that I didn't care about slowing my system down, so whenever I actually wanted to watch a video, I would start up firefox in the other profile.  It was clunky, but it got the job done.
> 

http://noscript.net/

Placeholder boxes where flash applets are. Click on them to run them. Works fantastic. (Also has other great features and tons of configurability.) As I am nearly incapable of reading text when something's animating (no eggageration), I would have entirely given up on the web years ago if it weren't for NoScript. (Not sure if I should credit NoScript for keeping me on the Web, or blame it ;) )

> > 
> >> I suppose it's not really the same, since visual source safe doesn't come with Windows, but still... you went through the trouble of installing git, why wouldn't you consider installing another browser just for github access?
> > 
> > Ick, why should GitHub expect people to do that? A person has already made their choice of browser. GitHub has no business expecting them to use GitHub with *GitHub's* choice of browser. It's a web browser, it should just fucking work.
> 
> I don't think you realized the irony of the last sentence there :)
> 

Poorly worded on my part. What I meant is that *sites* should "just f*** work", without any BS excuses about "That browser isn't as shiny new and perfect as I wish it was! Use what *I* say is a worthy browser or fuck off because *my* time and desires and preferences are far more important than *YOU*, the user!" (Software's supposed to be made for the user, not for the developer.)

> Anyway, I don't think github is built using non-standard extensions to anything, it's just that IE really sucks at adhering to standards.
> 

Uhh, yea, in my experience, the complaints about IE's compatibility are heavily overstated. Hell, I've actually had bigger problems with FF (although it's possible that may have changed with, what are they up to, like v27 now?). IE typically only gives you trouble if you're doing it wrong to begin with: Expecting to be pixel-perfect, using CSS for layout (just f*** dumb to begin with), getting overly fancy or pedantic with your HTML/CSS, etc. Stick to pragmatism and YAGNI and IE compatibility all the way back to 7 is fucking easy, contrary to all the claims.

> Every browser has its quirks, you can't expect a company to support them all  including all historic versions of them.

First of all, I don't expect everything to be perfect. And really, I
don't actually *expect* FF2 compatibility (even if it does annoy me
to not get it). What I *do* actually expect is a quality modern browser
that doesn't *FORCE* the Chrome school of UI design down my throat
(There is no such browser, BTW). That's all. (Well, that and for sites
to not be broken on the world's most common web browser, even if I don't
personally use it.)

> While I think
> there is a huge business case for supporting IE, since it's a very
> popular browser, it is truly a pain in the ass to support. Yeah, I'm
> sure you don't agree because "CSS sucks", but that's just the way it
> is.  If you simply accepted this, you may find yourself being a bit
> less grumpy :)
> 

If people "simply accepted" the *realities* of CSS (that it's *just not
good* at many of the things people insist on doing with it), then
compatibility would shoot through the roof with NO DOWNSIDE other than
getting less of that warm fuzzy feeling of "I'm implementing this the politically-correct way! Wheee!".

And CSS doesn't suck. It just sucks at layouts (and IMO dropdown menus).
It's perfectly acceptable for styling. Not perfect, but certainly not
"suck".
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On 3 Aug 2012, at 23:51, Steven Schveighoffer wrote:
> While I think there is a huge business case for supporting IE, since it's a very popular browser […]

Actually, I would be very surprised if IE was popular in GitHub's target demographic. For example, on my personal (programming) blog Windows 7 is the most popular OS, but only ~2% of the visitors use IE. I've seen similar numbers on other programming-related sites.

That being said, I'm pretty sure GitHub recognize the importance of Windows as a target platform, as the existence of their dedicated Windows client shows. I've found there support team to generally be very responsive – have they answered yet? Did you try it again?

David
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On Saturday, August 04, 2012 10:43:42 David Nadlinger wrote:
> On 3 Aug 2012, at 23:51, Steven Schveighoffer wrote:
> > While I think there is a huge business case for supporting IE, since it's a very popular browser […]
> 
> Actually, I would be very surprised if IE was popular in GitHub's target demographic. For example, on my personal (programming) blog Windows 7 is the most popular OS, but only ~2% of the visitors use IE. I've seen similar numbers on other programming-related sites.

It always shocks me when I hear of a tech-savvy person using IE. It's true that it's not as bad as it used to be, but for years, it was pretty much a given that it should be avoided like the plague given how bad it was.

That being said, as bad as IE may be, websites still need to work with it properly.

- Jonathan M Davis
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On 8/4/2012 1:43 AM, David Nadlinger wrote:
>
> That being said, I'm pretty sure GitHub recognize the importance of Windows as a target platform, as the existence of their dedicated Windows client shows. I've found there support team to generally be very responsive – have they answered yet?

They said it works for them.

> Did you try it again? 

No.

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