On Thursday, 17 March 2016 at 16:17:46 UTC, Karabuta wrote:
> Are there any female programmers using D? :)
> Moreover, the socia Media representation of D sucks. I think we need a female, at least someone soft and mortal who actually understand how to communicate and build a community. Coders suck at these things and its not helping. This is not about gender balance crap, it about building a community.
>
> Forgive me for my brutal opinion.
>
> Destroy :)

I guess this thread now only serves as a lesson in "political" writing.

Karabuta wanted to discuss that "the social media representation of D sucks". Unfortunately, he opened his post with a question for "female programmers using D". Even the title is "Females in the community". The discussion derailed into sexism and whatnot.

I would advice Karabuta (or anyone else) to make another top-level post without any references to gender, if you want to discuss social media.

The only women I noticed in the D community is Maxime [0]. She built a research Javascript compiler with D for her PhD and now joined Apple. Maybe we should ask her, if there are issues concerning women and the D community?

[0] http://pointersgonewild.com/

On 17.03.2016 23:36, maarten van damme via Digitalmars-d wrote:
>  > This very sexist and you are clearly either very young or a closet
> misogynist
>
> Great, so you answer a poorly thought out attempt to encourage women to
> join this community by bashing on younger people?
>
>

No. That statement does not make any value judgments about younger people.

On Friday, 18 March 2016 at 12:09:45 UTC, qznc wrote:
> On Thursday, 17 March 2016 at 16:17:46 UTC, Karabuta wrote:
>> Are there any female programmers using D? :)
>> Moreover, the socia Media representation of D sucks. I think we need a female, at least someone soft and mortal who actually understand how to communicate and build a community. Coders suck at these things and its not helping. This is not about gender balance crap, it about building a community.
>>
>> Forgive me for my brutal opinion.
>>
>> Destroy :)
>
> I guess this thread now only serves as a lesson in "political" writing.
>
> Karabuta wanted to discuss that "the social media representation of D sucks". Unfortunately, he opened his post with a question for "female programmers using D". Even the title is "Females in the community". The discussion derailed into sexism and whatnot.
>
> I would advice Karabuta (or anyone else) to make another top-level post without any references to gender, if you want to discuss social media.
>

Yeah, you are totally right. I though that it was clear that the statement contained "metaphors". Howerver, people had there own "words they wanted to spit out" :) I will try not to use metaphors in coders forum next time :)

It bothers me that some "BAD" programming languages have marketing edge on the social media, whilst D has none. You know, that's where "everybody" is nowadays.

On the side note, you saw through all the various comments and realized what I meant. That's amazing :)

On Thursday, 17 March 2016 at 22:28:34 UTC, lobo wrote:
> This very sexist and you are clearly either very young or a closet misogynist. If you want more women to join the D community first you need to understand why your dull and inane comments are extremely degrading.

Ideas like "gender/genitals/race matter more than merit" are coming back because of identity politics. Sadly, that's perpetuated by so called intersectional feminists, who are well intentioned, but whose actions result in a "concern troll" threads like this. It's ultimately harmful to everyone, because it's divisive and results in unequal treatment (positive and negative discrimination).

On Thursday, 17 March 2016 at 20:03:08 UTC, John Carter wrote:
> It is very clear from the 'net that some communities welcome woman, and some actively hate them, some ignore them.
Please link me to a single community (programming, os, library development) that hates women.

Ignoring women/men and other superficial divides is equal treatment. I'm a dog with brain and paw enchantments - nobody even has to know.

Welcoming everyone is the way to go. Focusing on specific groups is bias. Create a special program for women and now you have an unnecesary divide in your community.  Don't imply to women that they couldn't deal with other programmers outside of your little safe-space - that's degrading and not true. Focus on the commonalities - like hating C++ templates :).

> Part of me observes we are human first, programmers second, and human groups with a healthy gender mix are simpler more pleasant and functional places.
>
[Citation needed] What's the right mixture of people? Are biology departments and engineering departments less functional and pleasant than departments with more equal distribution? Do you really notice the gender behind nicknames and does it really affect your pleasure from participating in this newsgroup? Sorry to break your bubble but women are every bit as capable of being unpleasant as men are. Ah, and they sometimes fart too.

On Saturday, 19 March 2016 at 13:14:14 UTC, Karabuta wrote:
> Yeah, you are totally right. I though that it was clear that the statement contained "metaphors". Howerver, people had there own "words they wanted to spit out" :) I will try not to use metaphors in coders forum next time :)
>

No, you said say stupid stuff and got your ass kicked for it. Nothing to do with others. Grow a spine.

> It bothers me that some "BAD" programming languages have marketing edge on the social media, whilst D has none. You know, that's where "everybody" is nowadays.
>

If you wanted to talk about this, you should have talked about this. Don't blame other for your shortcomings.

On Thu, 17 Mar 2016 16:17:46 +0000, Karabuta wrote:
> Moreover, the socia Media representation of D sucks.

This suggests hiring someone for marketing.

> I think we need a female,

You can start by using the term "woman" rather than "female". Deemphasizing people's humanity isn't a good way to get them into your community.

> at least someone soft and mortal who actually understand how to communicate and build a community.

It's unfair to demand that a woman come in and help out with a project based on stereotypes. If I chose an arbitrary woman to help out, she is likely not to have the requisite skills.

You also want us to find a woman willing to do this without compensation -- you're not talking about hiring a part time community manager.

Note that community management is much different from marketing. Community management is about curation and internal promotion. Adam Ruppe's _This Week in D_ is the sort of thing a community manager would do. Marketing is about bringing people to D -- representing it at events and on social media, that kind of thing.

> Coders suck at these things and its not helping.

See what you just did there? You created a false dichotomy between women and coders. There are tons of women who can code. The first programmer was a woman. The first person to write a compiler was a woman.

You also insulted everyone here in the same breath.

> This is not about gender balance crap, it about building a community.

Not pushing away half the world by slighting them and demanding that they work for free at the same time would be a good start.

You could suggest that the D foundation hire a part-time community manager (we're low traffic; 5-10 hours a week should do) and donate to help accomplish that.

> Forgive me for my brutal opinion.

If you know in advance that you have to ask forgiveness for something, you could simply not do it in the first place.

On Fri, 18 Mar 2016 04:51:21 +0000, Mike Parker wrote:

> On Thursday, 17 March 2016 at 17:42:43 UTC, John Colvin wrote:
> 
>> P.S. what's with calling women "females", is it an americanism?
>> It sounds super weird to a British ear, we'd normally only say "female"
>> in a technical setting or about an animal, so it can sound a bit
>> disrespectful.
> 
> As an American, it seems more natural to me to use 'female' and 'male' as adjectives

As an adjective, agreed. "Lady" compounds better than "woman", so you can use that too.

Using 'female' as a noun in place of 'woman' is in my experience a hallmark of pick-up artists, men's rights activists, and allied trades. Just don't do it.

On Tuesday, 22 March 2016 at 18:00:09 UTC, Chris Wright wrote:
> As an adjective, agreed. "Lady" compounds better than "woman", so you can use that too.
>

So now, we are up to language policing already. You guys are true wonders of progress. The epitome of the free world.

> Using 'female' as a noun in place of 'woman' is in my experience a hallmark of pick-up artists, men's rights activists, and allied trades. Just don't do it.

"The word is used by people I don't like, no it should be banned".

Such progress. Much enlightenment. Wow !

On Thu, 17 Mar 2016 21:42:55 +0000, Lass Safin wrote:
> I, I mean, I just really CAN'T take you seriously, when you link shit like that.
> 
> I mean, sure, groups with a better balance of women and men tend to fare better, but thing is, we don't really care about the gender of someone, whom we aren't with physically. We just don't.

https://peerj.com/preprints/1733/

"Surprisingly, our results show that women's contributions tend to be accepted more often than men's. However, when a woman's gender is identifiable, they are rejected more often."

In other words, you can be any gender you want! Just don't let people in the community know if you're not a guy. Hope that wasn't an important part of your identity, like if your parents went as far as dressing you in different clothing because your gender from the day you were born or something like that.