If I write a program, A, then clearly I own the copyright on it.

If program A then writes program B, do I own the copyright on program B. Clearly, no-one ELSE has any claim on it, and programs don't have rights. (Fortunately, program A is not a sentient AI and so won't be upset by this). So: Is program B mine? Or is it somehow magically "copyright free"? Or should it by copyright program A? How can I licence program B if the copyright is owned by program A?

Sorry for such a weird question, but I'll be releasing program A _and_ program B soon, and I'm not sure what copyright/license notice to put on B.

Confused Jill

Just have A generate B with whatever license you choose.


"Arcane Jill" <Arcane_member@pathlink.com> wrote in message news:cb9i7l$2da9$1@digitaldaemon.com...
> If I write a program, A, then clearly I own the copyright on it.
>
> If program A then writes program B, do I own the copyright on program B. Clearly, no-one ELSE has any claim on it, and programs don't have rights. (Fortunately, program A is not a sentient AI and so won't be upset by this).
So:
> Is program B mine? Or is it somehow magically "copyright free"? Or should it by copyright program A? How can I licence program B if the copyright is owned by program A?
>
> Sorry for such a weird question, but I'll be releasing program A _and_ program
B
> soon, and I'm not sure what copyright/license notice to put on B.
>
> Confused Jill
>
>

Arcane Jill wrote:

> If I write a program, A, then clearly I own the copyright on it.
> 
> If program A then writes program B, do I own the copyright on program B.
> Clearly, no-one ELSE has any claim on it, and programs don't have rights.
> (Fortunately, program A is not a sentient AI and so won't be upset by this). So:
> Is program B mine? Or is it somehow magically "copyright free"? Or should it by
> copyright program A? How can I licence program B if the copyright is owned by
> program A?
> 
> Sorry for such a weird question, but I'll be releasing program A _and_ program B
> soon, and I'm not sure what copyright/license notice to put on B.

Generally, I would suspect program A to recieve some sort of data file, and transform it into program B.  In this case, all program A is doing is creating a new representation of an existing program, in which case copyright for one is synonymous with copyright for the other. Compilers, code generating tools, and even text editors can be rationalized into this category. (though I don't think thinking can be copyrighted)

If program A pulls program B out of the ether, then I have no idea, simply because I can't imagine a case where this could happen without either program A or B being either trivial or useless. (do correct me if I'm wrong here)

(IANAL, but I read slashdot!)

 -- andy

In article <cb9i7l$2da9$1@digitaldaemon.com>, Arcane Jill says...
>
>If I write a program, A, then clearly I own the copyright on it.
>
>If program A then writes program B, do I own the copyright on program B. Clearly, no-one ELSE has any claim on it, and programs don't have rights. (Fortunately, program A is not a sentient AI and so won't be upset by this). So: Is program B mine? Or is it somehow magically "copyright free"? Or should it by copyright program A? How can I licence program B if the copyright is owned by program A?
>
>Sorry for such a weird question, but I'll be releasing program A _and_ program B soon, and I'm not sure what copyright/license notice to put on B.
>
>Confused Jill
>

First off, I am not a lawyer.

Wouldn't this be the same as writing a compiler?  Since everything that comes out of MSVC isn't microsoft controlled, then I'm pretty sure that your program's license wouldn't fall to any output.

Now if its stamping a BSD license on every file generated, that's a different story.

-Pragma

My opinion:

* If you create program B yourself, it does not matter which means you used. Even if you used program A to do so, you are free to put whatever copyright onto the produced code.

* If somebody else uses program A, it fully depends on the license you give him. If you don't give him a license, he is not allowed to even call A. If the license forces him to put your copyright on the resulting code, it's up to him to decide whether he really wants to use your program.

I don't see any legal difference between your program A and some - say - editor. If the author of an editor demands that any code that was edited with it is copyrighted to him, he is free to do so. He won't find many users for it, but that's a different story.



Arcane Jill wrote:

> If I write a program, A, then clearly I own the copyright on it.
> 
> If program A then writes program B, do I own the copyright on program B. Clearly, no-one ELSE has any claim on it, and programs don't have rights. (Fortunately, program A is not a sentient AI and so won't be upset by this). So: Is program B mine? Or is it somehow magically "copyright free"? Or should it by copyright program A? How can I licence program B if the copyright is owned by program A?
> 
> Sorry for such a weird question, but I'll be releasing program A _and_ program B soon, and I'm not sure what copyright/license notice to put on B.
> 
> Confused Jill

In article <cb9ouc$2ocn$1@digitaldaemon.com>, pragma <EricAnderton at yahoo dot com> says...

>Wouldn't this be the same as writing a compiler?  Since everything that comes out of MSVC isn't microsoft controlled, then I'm pretty sure that your program's license wouldn't fall to any output.

Okay, I got it.

Thanks everyone.

Andy Friesen wrote:

> Arcane Jill wrote:
> 
>> If I write a program, A, then clearly I own the copyright on it.
>>
>> If program A then writes program B, do I own the copyright on program B.
>> Clearly, no-one ELSE has any claim on it, and programs don't have rights.
>> (Fortunately, program A is not a sentient AI and so won't be upset by this). So:
>> Is program B mine? Or is it somehow magically "copyright free"? Or should it by
>> copyright program A? How can I licence program B if the copyright is owned by
>> program A?
>>
>> Sorry for such a weird question, but I'll be releasing program A _and_ program B
>> soon, and I'm not sure what copyright/license notice to put on B.
> 
> 
> Generally, I would suspect program A to recieve some sort of data file, and transform it into program B.  In this case, all program A is doing is creating a new representation of an existing program, in which case copyright for one is synonymous with copyright for the other. Compilers, code generating tools, and even text editors can be rationalized into this category. (though I don't think thinking can be copyrighted)

But if you live in the US or other parts of the world devoid of a (thinking) legal system you can probably patent it!

> 
> If program A pulls program B out of the ether, then I have no idea, simply because I can't imagine a case where this could happen without either program A or B being either trivial or useless. (do correct me if I'm wrong here)

I think you're right.

And if A is actually generating B out of "nothing" (so to speak) but its own 'imagination' then you've likely bested the (in)famous Turing test of intelligence. Expect a Nobel prize.

Cheers,
Sigbjørn Lund Olsen