On Thursday, 27 November 2014 at 05:12:52 UTC, weaselcat wrote:
> On Thursday, 27 November 2014 at 05:04:20 UTC, deadalnix wrote:
>> On Thursday, 27 November 2014 at 03:51:59 UTC, Adam D. Ruppe wrote:
>>> BTW @nogc should have an escape hatch at least for assert(0, allocate_a_message). The program is dying anyway, at least let me conveniently format a descriptive error message.
>>
>> Ownership would solve this.
>
> Is there any work being done on ownership?
>
> @Adam D. Ruppe : Check out st from suckless, it was made because
> xterm is unmaintainable. Also, consider a distro from this
> century ;)

I've made some proposal, but it looks like the first stone we want to have is scope.

On Wednesday, 26 November 2014 at 21:02:20 UTC, H. S. Teoh via
Digitalmars-d wrote:
> <soapbox> This is one of the reasons I've completely given up on the
> whole "desktop metaphor" movement. It has become all glitz and no
> substance IMNSHO; all about this font vs. that font rather than actually
> solving real problems. Give me ratpoison and a bare terminal emulator
> any day, and my productivity gets boosted 300%. Even when I'm using
> Windows, that purportedly sports "better" UI design than Linux, I find
> myself spending more time fighting with the UI than actually getting
> anything done. The GUI emperor has no clothes, and I'm calling BS on the
> whole movement! </soapbox>

That's because GUIs are not aimed at highly technical power users
like you, but for most people, who don't want to memorize a bunch
of technical commands and barely know how to type.  They would be
much slower with ratpoison and a terminal than you are with a
GUI. ;) Touch similarly brought computing to a billion more
people, while taking another step backwards in interaction
bandwidth from the desktop GUI.  The cruder you make the tool,
the easier it is for people to grasp.

However, I'm looking forward to voice recognition and some sort
of hand gesture input becoming the dominant interfaces in the
coming years.  Those will be even easier to use than anything so
far, and could be much faster than even your current
keyboard-driven software.

On Thu, 27 Nov 2014 06:50:59 +0000
Joakim via Digitalmars-d <digitalmars-d@puremagic.com> wrote:

> However, I'm looking forward to voice recognition and some sort of hand gesture input becoming the dominant interfaces in the coming years.  Those will be even easier to use than anything so far, and could be much faster than even your current keyboard-driven software.
i just imagined some sort of i... human standing against the wall, gesticulating like mad and talking nonsense to the void... creepy.

i bet that such intefaces will be widespread, but faster and more usable? nope. i can type much faster than i'm talking, i can edit what i typed and... and just won't buy it. but yes, they *seems* to be better than plain old keyboard.

On Thursday, 27 November 2014 at 06:51:00 UTC, Joakim wrote:
> That's because GUIs are not aimed at highly technical power users
> like you, but for most people, who don't want to memorize a bunch
> of technical commands and barely know how to type.  They would be
> much slower with ratpoison and a terminal than you are with a
> GUI. ;)


I hear that false dichotomy so many time that I lost count. That's is an idiotic mindset. You can have a gui that is also manipulable all via keyboard in an efficient manner.

gnome-do is a good example of this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTxqE3M1k0U

Because of that mindset, we are in 2014 and all terminal emulator are complete garbage to the point I ended up coding my own (which is garbage as well but at least does what I do and I can fix it when it doesn't, and it is in D :) ).

On Thursday, 27 November 2014 at 05:04:20 UTC, deadalnix wrote:
> Ownership would solve this.

Yup.

On Thursday, 27 November 2014 at 05:12:52 UTC, weaselcat wrote:
> @Adam D. Ruppe : Check out st from suckless, it was made because
> xterm is unmaintainable.

Cool. Though my from-scratch terminal emulator already works pretty well, just a few bugs popping up now that I'm actually relying on it, but I'll fix them as they come up.

> Also, consider a distro from this century ;)

The problem is that I hate new things! What I should have done is never updated. But oh well, it is good enough now and besides, the impetus to ditch more of the not-written-by-me software i was using just makes me cooler.

On Thursday, 27 November 2014 at 06:51:00 UTC, Joakim wrote:
> However, I'm looking forward to voice recognition

I hate voice recognition because it doesn't actually think about what you're saying... it is just another way to input crude information into the same idiotic core, and keyboard symbols are better.

What would be interesting - though not something I want in the real world, I kinda enjoy getting my paycheck - is a voice AI like they have in Star Trek.

"Computer, I need a terminal emulator."

a few beeps, then it pops one up

"No, that sucks, make the mouse wheel work."

the computer beeps as it looks at existing things to figure out what you meant by "work" then adjusts the program


Self-programming computers, now *that's* a voice interface.

On Wednesday, 26 November 2014 at 21:02:20 UTC, H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 08:06:01PM +0000, Adam D. Ruppe via Digitalmars-d wrote:
>> So my computer died on me again last week and I had to buy new
>> hardware. I was forced to update the software to run the new
>> hardware... and it is painful.
>
> I have a high distrust of brand new *hardware*, because they inevitably
> are gratuitously incompatible with my current software and require
> new-fangled OSes bloated with features I never use. Because of this, I
> only ever upgrade once every 5 years (if not longer). And when I do,
> I'll be sure to spend plenty of time researching what hardware isn't
> horribly broken or requires a specific version of a specific OS and
> doesn't work with anything else. Vendor lock-in is evil.
>
>
>> I hate all software and have learned that if I want a job done right,
>> I have to do it myself. Rarely, I find other people's software is OK
>> with some slight modifications, so I try to do that.
>
> 	I don't trust computers, I've spent too long programming to
> 	think that they can get anything right. -- James Miller
>
> :-)
>

I always find it amusing when people say "It was done with a computer, it must be correct!" Yeah, sure.

On 2014-11-27 09:17, deadalnix wrote:

> I hear that false dichotomy so many time that I lost count. That's is an
> idiotic mindset. You can have a gui that is also manipulable all via
> keyboard in an efficient manner.
>
> gnome-do is a good example of this:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTxqE3M1k0U

I'm using Quicksilver [1] on OS X, which seems to be the same thing as gnome-do.

> Because of that mindset, we are in 2014 and all terminal emulator are
> complete garbage to the point I ended up coding my own (which is garbage
> as well but at least does what I do and I can fix it when it doesn't,
> and it is in D :) ).

I'm using iTerm2 [2] on OS X. I think it's pretty good. Some of the cool features it supports:

* Drag and drop to download/upload files to/from server via SCP/SSH

* Bookmarks. It can also automatically set special bookmarks for each prompt, I found this very useful

* Silent and visual bell
* Notifications

* Cmd+click on files/folders/links will open the item in the default application

* Render inline images

* Toolbelt, basically a side bar that can show different panes like command history, captured output, jobs, recent directories and so on

* tmux integration, this basically means tmux tabs and split panes can be mapped to native tabs and split panes

Then some of more standard boring features: themes, profiles, tabs and split panes.

[1] http://qsapp.com/
[2] http://iterm2.com/

-- 
/Jacob Carlborg

On 2014-11-27 18:55, Jacob Carlborg wrote:

> I'm using iTerm2 [2] on OS X.

One thing I really miss that the standard terminal has in OS X is automatic restoring of sessions. This includes command history, output and window layout.

-- 
/Jacob Carlborg