Talking with some colleges. They have some questions regarding D:

1. Is D ready for prime time á la safety critical applications?
(I guess they mean GDC on ARM for example)

2. Are there any plans to make a certified compiler?

On Monday, 8 February 2021 at 11:09:49 UTC, Imperatorn wrote:
> Talking with some colleges. They have some questions regarding D:
>
> 1. Is D ready for prime time á la safety critical applications?
> (I guess they mean GDC on ARM for example)
>
> 2. Are there any plans to make a certified compiler?

What kind of safety critical applications are we talking about? Which certifications are you targeting for your product(s)?

I'm not currently aware of any certified compilers for D. It would be cool if one existed, though.

On Monday, 8 February 2021 at 11:19:44 UTC, Gregor Mückl wrote:
> On Monday, 8 February 2021 at 11:09:49 UTC, Imperatorn wrote:
>> Talking with some colleges. They have some questions regarding D:
>>
>> 1. Is D ready for prime time á la safety critical applications?
>> (I guess they mean GDC on ARM for example)
>>
>> 2. Are there any plans to make a certified compiler?
>
> What kind of safety critical applications are we talking about? Which certifications are you targeting for your product(s)?
>
> I'm not currently aware of any certified compilers for D. It would be cool if one existed, though.

I'm in a bit of a hurry atm, but basically IEC 61508 and ISO 26262 (we have older systems for EN 50128 and EN 50657 but they are not actively developed):

https://www.iar.com/iar-embedded-workbench/certified-tools-for-functional-safety/

On Monday, 8 February 2021 at 11:09:49 UTC, Imperatorn wrote:
> Talking with some colleges. They have some questions regarding D:
>
> 1. Is D ready for prime time á la safety critical applications?
> (I guess they mean GDC on ARM for example)
>
> 2. Are there any plans to make a certified compiler?

Besides C and C++, I am only aware of Java (PTC/Aicas) and Ada compilers as fully certified compilers.

Rust has one company driving the roadmap for such kind of deployments,

https://ferrous-systems.com/blog/sealed-rust-the-pitch/

Whereas Wilderness Labs is driving .NET IoT efforts, however without certification in place,

https://www.wildernesslabs.co/

I am not aware of similar efforts regarding D.

On Monday, 8 February 2021 at 15:12:47 UTC, Paulo Pinto wrote:
> On Monday, 8 February 2021 at 11:09:49 UTC, Imperatorn wrote:
>> Talking with some colleges. They have some questions regarding D:
>>
>> 1. Is D ready for prime time á la safety critical applications?
>> (I guess they mean GDC on ARM for example)
>>
>> 2. Are there any plans to make a certified compiler?
>
> Besides C and C++, I am only aware of Java (PTC/Aicas) and Ada compilers as fully certified compilers.
>
> Rust has one company driving the roadmap for such kind of deployments,
>
> https://ferrous-systems.com/blog/sealed-rust-the-pitch/
>
> Whereas Wilderness Labs is driving .NET IoT efforts, however without certification in place,
>
> https://www.wildernesslabs.co/
>
> I am not aware of similar efforts regarding D.

We might not need the compiler to be certified if we can do other tests (like using Klee etc). But was curious if it had been discussed before.

On 09/02/2021 4:44 AM, Imperatorn wrote:
> We might not need the compiler to be certified if we can do other tests (like using Klee etc). But was curious if it had been discussed before.

Walter has said, that we won't do certification without a reason.
Once we have a reason such as your company we can determine what needs to be done, and do it.

The next step is to talk to him I think.

On Monday, 8 February 2021 at 13:17:31 UTC, Imperatorn wrote:

>> What kind of safety critical applications are we talking about? Which certifications are you targeting for your product(s)?
>>
>> I'm not currently aware of any certified compilers for D. It would be cool if one existed, though.
>
> I'm in a bit of a hurry atm, but basically IEC 61508 and ISO 26262 (we have older systems for EN 50128 and EN 50657 but they are not actively developed):
>
> https://www.iar.com/iar-embedded-workbench/certified-tools-for-functional-safety/

In brief, how does it work? If a bug will be found in the compiler, certifying authority (or its staff) will be fined?

On Monday, 8 February 2021 at 23:01:17 UTC, Denis Feklushkin wrote:
> On Monday, 8 February 2021 at 13:17:31 UTC, Imperatorn wrote:
>
>>> What kind of safety critical applications are we talking about? Which certifications are you targeting for your product(s)?
>>>
>>> I'm not currently aware of any certified compilers for D. It would be cool if one existed, though.
>>
>> I'm in a bit of a hurry atm, but basically IEC 61508 and ISO 26262 (we have older systems for EN 50128 and EN 50657 but they are not actively developed):
>>
>> https://www.iar.com/iar-embedded-workbench/certified-tools-for-functional-safety/
>
> In brief, how does it work? If a bug will be found in the compiler, certifying authority (or its staff) will be fined?

The certification only increases the trust in a SW generated by the certified tool.
Without this certificate a tool is simply not allowed to be used to build ISO compliant SW.
But the SW still need to be fully tested and the tool provider is not responsible for any undetected bug in the resulting SW.
Of course a tool bug need to be documented, if its vendor wants to keep its certification. It is not even a fix required, not to mention fines :-)

On 2/8/2021 3:09 AM, Imperatorn wrote:
> Talking with some colleges. They have some questions regarding D:
> 
> 1. Is D ready for prime time á la safety critical applications?
> (I guess they mean GDC on ARM for example)

Sure. It's far better than C is. The biggest impact is simply having array overflow detection. There's a lot more, too, such as protections against uninitialized variables and pointers to expired stack frames.


> 2. Are there any plans to make a certified compiler?

Not at the moment.

On Tuesday, 9 February 2021 at 09:39:50 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
> On 2/8/2021 3:09 AM, Imperatorn wrote:
>> Talking with some colleges. They have some questions regarding D:
>> 
>> 1. Is D ready for prime time á la safety critical applications?
>> (I guess they mean GDC on ARM for example)
>
> Sure. It's far better than C is. The biggest impact is simply having array overflow detection. There's a lot more, too, such as protections against uninitialized variables and pointers to expired stack frames.
>
>
>> 2. Are there any plans to make a certified compiler?
>
> Not at the moment.

Splendid! I'll try to convince my colleagues to try it 🐢