Lars Ivar Igesund pisze:
> Aarti_pl wrote:
> 
>> Lars Ivar Igesund pisze:
>>
>>> As mentioned before, the dancing logos had issues. We were looking for a
>>> logo that could represent power, speed and elegance, much like the dance
>>> and thus a reason for Tango being used as a name for the library. I feel
>>> the new logo represents all those traits nicely.
>> Well, I would say that name and logo together represents a lack of
>> cohesion... And I think that it is unintended, isn't it? ;-)
> 
> A logo is about connotations, not cohesion. The latter can be nice, but is
> rather uncommon with logos in general. The unusual aspect here may be that
> images exist that match Tango, but they still don't make for good logos.
> 

That is simply not true. Cohesion of e.g. company image is very important and companies work very hard to create cohesive image for outside world.

I think that the same rules applies to every organization which wants to make its chances for success better. That said MOST of good organizations shows their customers cohesive image.

*** I used word image in meaning: "everything what is visible for others from outside of organization.". It includes among others: name, logo, public relations, advertisements etc.

Unfortunately engineers often underestimate marketing issues... :-)

Best Regards
Marcin Kuszczak
(aarti_pl)

Lars Ivar Igesund pisze:
> Lars Ivar Igesund wrote:
> 
>> Aarti_pl wrote:
>>
>>> Lars Ivar Igesund pisze:
>>>
>>>> As mentioned before, the dancing logos had issues. We were looking for a
>>>> logo that could represent power, speed and elegance, much like the dance
>>>> and thus a reason for Tango being used as a name for the library. I feel
>>>> the new logo represents all those traits nicely.
>>> Well, I would say that name and logo together represents a lack of
>>> cohesion... And I think that it is unintended, isn't it? ;-)
>> A logo is about connotations, not cohesion. The latter can be nice, but is
>> rather uncommon with logos in general. The unusual aspect here may be that
>> images exist that match Tango, but they still don't make for good logos.
> 
> I should add that such a logo _may_ exist, but we have yet to see it. The
> only viable alternatives to the current one in this round, were fully
> abstract logos.
> 
> Note that those saying the logo reminds them of cars, planes or motorcycles
> hits up on the same fact that made us choose the logo; the motive has been
> used in logos for such products and I would guess for the exact same
> reasons - the wings represents power, speed and elegance. Having wings as a
> logo for a motorcycle isn't cohesive either right?
> 

But did you see big, powerful and heavy motorcycles named "Tango"?
They call them "Harley Davidson"... :-D

Please notice that wings logo is connected rather with: "big, powerful, heavy, metal, hard, machine" words than with "elegance, dance, subtle, nice, light".

I studied in first place marketing, so I hope I have right feeling about these issues. But anyway I just wanted to give you feedback, as my feelings about new logo were similar as others expressed here.

BR
Marcin Kuszczak
(aarti_pl)

Aarti_pl wrote:
> 
> Unfortunately engineers often underestimate marketing issues... :-)

To imply that we're in that group (underestimating marketing issues) would
be wrong.

-- 
Lars Ivar Igesund
blog at http://larsivi.net
DSource, #d.tango & #D: larsivi
Dancing the Tango

Aarti_pl wrote:

> Lars Ivar Igesund pisze:
>> Lars Ivar Igesund wrote:
>> 
>>> Aarti_pl wrote:
>>>
>>>> Lars Ivar Igesund pisze:
>>>>
>>>>> As mentioned before, the dancing logos had issues. We were looking for a logo that could represent power, speed and elegance, much like the dance and thus a reason for Tango being used as a name for the library. I feel the new logo represents all those traits nicely.
>>>> Well, I would say that name and logo together represents a lack of cohesion... And I think that it is unintended, isn't it? ;-)
>>> A logo is about connotations, not cohesion. The latter can be nice, but is rather uncommon with logos in general. The unusual aspect here may be that images exist that match Tango, but they still don't make for good logos.
>> 
>> I should add that such a logo _may_ exist, but we have yet to see it. The only viable alternatives to the current one in this round, were fully abstract logos.
>> 
>> Note that those saying the logo reminds them of cars, planes or motorcycles hits up on the same fact that made us choose the logo; the motive has been used in logos for such products and I would guess for the exact same reasons - the wings represents power, speed and elegance. Having wings as a logo for a motorcycle isn't cohesive either right?
>> 
> 
> But did you see big, powerful and heavy motorcycles named "Tango"? They call them "Harley Davidson"... :-D
> 
> Please notice that wings logo is connected rather with: "big, powerful, heavy, metal, hard, machine" words than with "elegance, dance, subtle, nice, light".

I think you are wrong on several accounts here, as the metal, machine and heavy aspects has entered the fray here through the products themselves, neither through logo nor name. When did a bird ever start representing heavy? The logo isn't of an ostrich either.

Tango was chosen as a name because it can mean power, speed and elegance. That it is a dance can additionally be used to infer some sense of fun (dancing is fun, hopefully it is fun to use Tango too). Now, the logo _also_ represents (in our eyes) power, speed and elegance (and if you want, flying, which is fun and hopefully your Tango using code will fly too). That the logo doesn't represent dancing is thus less of an issue, as that was not the reason for choosing the name.

Given the above connotations for both name and logo (I understand that others may put other things into it, but that applies to all images), the whole is highly cohesive, albeit in a different plane of perception. We may be testing conventions with this logo, and if so I personally think that is a good thing :) (as a user with only practical marketing background).

> I studied in first place marketing, so I hope I have right feeling about these issues.

They may be right for you, but I don't agree with you, and I'm generally impressed by how bad marketing representatives can perform when trying to market computer technologies. You should indeed have a better background for that though.

> But anyway I just wanted to give you feedback, as my feelings about new logo were similar as others expressed here.

Negative feedback (to call it that, I know you mean it to be constructive) is in a minority - most is very positive.

-- 
Lars Ivar Igesund
blog at http://larsivi.net
DSource, #d.tango & #D: larsivi
Dancing the Tango

Lars Ivar Igesund wrote:
> Aarti_pl wrote:
> 
>> Lars Ivar Igesund pisze:
>>
>>> As mentioned before, the dancing logos had issues. We were looking for a
>>> logo that could represent power, speed and elegance, much like the dance
>>> and thus a reason for Tango being used as a name for the library. I feel
>>> the new logo represents all those traits nicely.
>> Well, I would say that name and logo together represents a lack of
>> cohesion... And I think that it is unintended, isn't it? ;-)
> 
> A logo is about connotations, not cohesion. The latter can be nice, but is
> rather uncommon with logos in general. The unusual aspect here may be that
> images exist that match Tango, but they still don't make for good logos.
> 

I just like the concept of a standard library with its own logo.  That's funny.  And that we're debating about what it should be.  When I thought it was a motorcycle thing, I thought hey that's cool.  Maybe they're all into motorcycles or something.  Maybe it's an allusion to zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance.  I could definitely see that Robert Pirsig guy spinning a convincing argument that tangoing and morcycling are actually the same thing.

Anyway, image googling for "biker logo" turns up a few wings on the first page, so I guess I'm not crazy.
Like http://www.arabianbiker.com/

--bb

Bill Baxter wrote:
> Lars Ivar Igesund wrote:
>> Aarti_pl wrote:
>>
>>> Lars Ivar Igesund pisze:
>>>
>>>> As mentioned before, the dancing logos had issues. We were looking
>>>> for a
>>>> logo that could represent power, speed and elegance, much like the
>>>> dance
>>>> and thus a reason for Tango being used as a name for the library. I
>>>> feel
>>>> the new logo represents all those traits nicely.
>>> Well, I would say that name and logo together represents a lack of cohesion... And I think that it is unintended, isn't it? ;-)
>>
>> A logo is about connotations, not cohesion. The latter can be nice,
>> but is
>> rather uncommon with logos in general. The unusual aspect here may be
>> that
>> images exist that match Tango, but they still don't make for good logos.
>>
> 
> I just like the concept of a standard library with its own logo.  That's funny.  And that we're debating about what it should be.  When I thought it was a motorcycle thing, I thought hey that's cool.  Maybe they're all into motorcycles or something.  Maybe it's an allusion to zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance.  I could definitely see that Robert Pirsig guy spinning a convincing argument that tangoing and morcycling are actually the same thing.

My first impression when I saw the design was that it looked like a car logo (Bentley, for example).  However, I actually liked that the design was at once both elegant, simple, and totally uncharacteristic for a software library.  Most software logos tend to be cute or a bit silly, and in my opinion not terribly marketable.  This logo, on the other hand, I'd actually feel pretty good about putting on a polo shirt.

We invested a lot of time into creating a dance-oriented logo with the same elegance and simplicity and simply couldn't find one we liked.  The designs were all either so abstract that they were unidentifiable, too complex, etc.

> Anyway, image googling for "biker logo" turns up a few wings on the first page, so I guess I'm not crazy.

One thing that can be said for the current logo is that it seems to provoke a reaction in everyone that sees it.  That's rarely a bad thing in marketing ;-)


Sean

Sean Kelly escribió:
> Bill Baxter wrote:
>> Lars Ivar Igesund wrote:
>>> Aarti_pl wrote:
>>>
>>>> Lars Ivar Igesund pisze:
>>>>
>>>>> As mentioned before, the dancing logos had issues. We were looking
>>>>> for a
>>>>> logo that could represent power, speed and elegance, much like the
>>>>> dance
>>>>> and thus a reason for Tango being used as a name for the library. I
>>>>> feel
>>>>> the new logo represents all those traits nicely.
>>>> Well, I would say that name and logo together represents a lack of
>>>> cohesion... And I think that it is unintended, isn't it? ;-)
>>> A logo is about connotations, not cohesion. The latter can be nice,
>>> but is
>>> rather uncommon with logos in general. The unusual aspect here may be
>>> that
>>> images exist that match Tango, but they still don't make for good logos.
>>>
>> I just like the concept of a standard library with its own logo.  That's
>> funny.  And that we're debating about what it should be.  When I thought
>> it was a motorcycle thing, I thought hey that's cool.  Maybe they're all
>> into motorcycles or something.  Maybe it's an allusion to zen and the
>> art of motorcycle maintenance.  I could definitely see that Robert
>> Pirsig guy spinning a convincing argument that tangoing and morcycling
>> are actually the same thing.
> 
> My first impression when I saw the design was that it looked like a car
> logo (Bentley, for example).  However, I actually liked that the design
> was at once both elegant, simple, and totally uncharacteristic for a
> software library.  Most software logos tend to be cute or a bit silly,
> and in my opinion not terribly marketable.  This logo, on the other
> hand, I'd actually feel pretty good about putting on a polo shirt.
> 
> We invested a lot of time into creating a dance-oriented logo with the
> same elegance and simplicity and simply couldn't find one we liked.  The
> designs were all either so abstract that they were unidentifiable, too
> complex, etc.
> 
>> Anyway, image googling for "biker logo" turns up a few wings on the
>> first page, so I guess I'm not crazy.
> 
> One thing that can be said for the current logo is that it seems to
> provoke a reaction in everyone that sees it.  That's rarely a bad thing
> in marketing ;-)
> 
> 
> Sean

When I saw the logo, I didn't think of cars of motorcycles. I just saw the wings and thought "flying." Kinda weird, probably, but not bad, not bad at all.

-- 
Carlos Santander Bernal

Lars Ivar Igesund wrote:
> As mentioned before, the dancing logos had issues. We were looking for a
> logo that could represent power, speed and elegance, much like the dance
> and thus a reason for Tango being used as a name for the library. I feel
> the new logo represents all those traits nicely.

A couple url's:

Tango: http://www.dsource.org/projects/tango/

Army Air Force wings: http://www.wittworldwide.com/images/W2AAFPilotWgPBSterlx.jpg


A historical note: The AAF pin was worn by pilots of piston engine aircraft. When those pilots were transitioned to jets, they'd go to a jeweler and have the wings "swept back" on their pins.

Walter Bright wrote:
> Lars Ivar Igesund wrote:
>> As mentioned before, the dancing logos had issues. We were looking for a
>> logo that could represent power, speed and elegance, much like the dance
>> and thus a reason for Tango being used as a name for the library. I feel
>> the new logo represents all those traits nicely.
> 
> A couple url's:
> 
> Tango: http://www.dsource.org/projects/tango/
> 
> Army Air Force wings: http://www.wittworldwide.com/images/W2AAFPilotWgPBSterlx.jpg
> 
> 
> A historical note: The AAF pin was worn by pilots of piston engine aircraft. When those pilots were transitioned to jets, they'd go to a jeweler and have the wings "swept back" on their pins.

I should add that in order to register a trademark (necessary if you want to protect it) it needs to be unique. I am not a trademark lawyer, but you may have a hard time defending the wings as not being "confusingly similar" to other marks.

"Walter Bright" <newshound1@digitalmars.com> wrote in message news:fnmsif$1341$1@digitalmars.com...
> Do a google image search on tango, and I think you'll find a lot of great inspiration for a logo!

since I did that logo (as well as the one for arclib), I think I might add a
thing or two.
After several dozens of versions, this one was chosen because it works - you
talk about it, you will remember it - its different, since no other software
library has something like it, and especially not in D world. It also
portrays Tangos power. And its cool, its not boring.

I like it.

here is something that awaits a bottle to be rendered: http://www.vga.hr/tango_final/alc_label.PNG http://www.vga.hr/tango_final/alc_label_back.PNG http://www.vga.hr/tango_final/vrat.PNG