On Wednesday, 12 December 2018 at 01:12:51 UTC, Mike Franklin wrote:
> Well, it's also not entirely true.  I've submitted a few pull requests recently to hopefully help clear a few obstacles for others.  But after that I probably won't be doing besides a few things here and there.

I'm glad to hear you will be around. Be it only sharing your great experience in the forums :) We have here too few people with the embedded programming on their mind.

> I don't want to get too deep into it, as I don't think it will result in anything positive.  Suffice it to say, I want to get to X.  I don't know where others want to go, but it sure doesn't look like they're all that interested in X.  I don't think I'll ever be able to use D professionally if it stays on the current trajectory, and trying to influence its direction by contributing is exhausting and affects me negatively.

I know what you mean by the problems of using D in the industry.
On the other hand, 2 years ago I heard about a small company in my area (Poland) that uses D for automation/robotics projects. It was a little surprise to me.
And to be honest sometimes it's just a matter of the company management and/or technical leaders' preferences if D can be used in production. And I have seen so much bad tools and technologies (not related to D) used in embedded systems area. And no one cared about it.

As for Walter and Andrei, they have different priorities. And that's ok for me, because I know that embedded system industry is very though place for new technologies. Still, D can be already used in micro controllers if requirements don't rule it out.

> At one point I asked myself:  "In 5 years what will I have to show for the blood, sweat, and tears I put into D?" vs "In 5 years what will I have to show for the sweat, without the blood and tears, I put into X?".  Opportunity cost is the term that comes to mind.  Even if X never materializes I'll be more skilled, fulfilled, and ultimately happier if I work on X than contribute to D.

Yeah, I agree that we all should make our bets based on clean conscience in order to not regret it. And maybe it's time for you to have some fun and refill your energy.

As for me, I still consider D to be the best option for embedded systems. The only contender is Rust. But in my opinion (based on my experience) it has too many serious disadvantages and bad goals.

To keep it short. I hope, that if there are any D related activities done by you they will be fruitful for all parties. I can say, I learnt many things from you. So,thank you.

BTW, is there a way I can send you some $ for a beer? :) Like donation button?

Cheers,
Piotrek

On Wednesday, 12 December 2018 at 11:13:01 UTC, Mike Franklin wrote:
> On Wednesday, 12 December 2018 at 09:19:51 UTC, Jusl wrote:
>> On Wednesday, 12 December 2018 at 01:12:51 UTC, Mike Franklin wrote:
>>> I don't think I'll ever be able to use D professionally if it stays on the current trajectory, and trying to influence its direction by contributing is exhausting and affects me negatively.
>>
>> Yup contributing to D is one of the worst experiences I've had with any Open Source project I've contributed to. Walter isn't even willing to admit to there being problems, if he thinks there isn't a problem then nothing about it will end up changing. Doesn't help that he has opinions that align with that developer from Clojure, that he owes you and everyone else absolutely nothing, yet (I imagine or at the very least *hope*) he wants D to succeed. The two don't go hand in hand though.
>
> To clarify, contributing to D, in general, has been a positive experience for me.  Many on the team were quite helpful reviewing my PRs, helping me get them right, contributing alternate implementations, helping me with testing and other infrastructure issues, etc.  Thank you all for your support.  I did my best to pay some of that back; and I'm sorry if it wasn't enough.
>
> What I was trying to say is that trying to influence D's direction (by contributing) is exhausting and constantly leaves me feeling disappointed and sad rather than hopeful for the future.  I think Walter and Andrei have set a course for where they want to go, and aren't all that interested in alternatives.  That's fine, and if I were leading the project, I wouldn't have it any other way, but I don't think the current direction will be successful (I'd be delighted to be proven wrong).  I see the next 5 years much like the past 5 years, and that's discouraging to me.
>
> I have no hard feelings for those I worked with when I was more actively involved.  I salute you all and thank you for your support. I just have a different vision for what D should be; that's all.
>
> Mike

Mike, thanks for contributing to D!

Hope that you might reconsider and keep adding your great experience to making D a viable tool for embedded devices.

I think I understand your frustration, I glanced over some of your PRs and your comments and I think you were right on many occasions. It is a shame that some times W&A don't properly reward talent and expertise. Time to time we see talented people giving up and leaving because some friction with W or A. I wish there was a way to mediate such things.

All the best,

Radu