On Thursday, 26 November 2015 at 04:42:14 UTC, David DeWitt wrote:

> Is there any document explaining how to default to JSON so it isn't necessary to specify each time? Also SDL isn't the default so if they both stay shouldn't the discussion be which is the default or if the user chooses their preference at sometime after install (maybe first project)?

Correction:
Should be "SDL is the default so...."

On 11/25/2015 11:29 PM, Mike Parker wrote:
> On Thursday, 26 November 2015 at 01:14:11 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
>> On 11/25/2015 12:39 PM, Jonathan M Davis wrote:
>>> To be fair, they _didn't_ invent a new format. They just picked one
>>> that's far
>>> less well-known than what they were using before.
>>
>> The energy poured into SDL would be more profitably directed towards
>> improving Phobos' json support.
>
> The energy has already been spent. It's already supported. Projects are
> already using it. This isn't something new.
>
> Regarding other comments in this thread, *JSON support is not going
> away.* If you prefer to use JSON, use it. There's no problem here.
>
> As for searchability, you'll find discussions in the vibe.d forums where
> people refer to it as SDLang now rather than SDL to avoid confusion with
> the game library. Type that into Google and you're golden. It's no
> different than encouraging people to search for DLang instead of D, so
> it's not a big deal.
>
> There are plenty of us who prefer to use SDLang over JSON for our config
> files. We do not want to see support for it taken away when there's no
> need for it. It's a much cleaner format, IMO, popular or not. Anyone who
> finds SDLang somehow abhorrent can just use JSON and move on.

This would be a lot more sensible if dub were not the official package and build manager. The way I look at it, it's a manifestation of a systemic problem: I can't work on dub and I can't monitor decisions regarding it. Yet that doesn't make it less official. So I need to trust other people to mind it in a way that is aligned in broad strokes with my view. If I say "well but that's very unlike my view" and I get back "some of us prefer it a different way and that's the way it is" then that trust is affected. -- Andrei

On Thursday, 26 November 2015 at 05:25:46 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

>>
>> There are plenty of us who prefer to use SDLang over JSON for our config
>> files. We do not want to see support for it taken away when there's no
>> need for it. It's a much cleaner format, IMO, popular or not. Anyone who
>> finds SDLang somehow abhorrent can just use JSON and move on.
>
> This would be a lot more sensible if dub were not the official package and build manager. The way I look at it, it's a manifestation of a systemic problem: I can't work on dub and I can't monitor decisions regarding it. Yet that doesn't make it less official. So I need to trust other people to mind it in a way that is aligned in broad strokes with my view. If I say "well but that's very unlike my view" and I get back "some of us prefer it a different way and that's the way it is" then that trust is affected. -- Andrei

If there's an issue with having SDLang as the default for 'dub init', then I don't see a problem with reverting to JSON as the default. And I say that despite having revised the book I just completed to reflect the latest DUB release, which does use SDLang by default for 'dub init'. But I cannot see any justification for removing support for it. Tools that need information about a project's dub configuration should be using the output of 'dub describe' anyway, which is and will always be JSON. The format used by the project maintainer in the source tree is irrelevant.

I also don't see how there is any trust being broken here. The decision to add support for SDL was made long before DUB became "official".

On Thursday, 26 November 2015 at 05:25:46 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
> This would be a lot more sensible if dub were not the official package and build manager. The way I look at it, it's a manifestation of a systemic problem: I can't work on dub and I can't monitor decisions regarding it. Yet that doesn't make it less official. So I need to trust other people to mind it in a way that is aligned in broad strokes with my view. If I say "well but that's very unlike my view" and I get back "some of us prefer it a different way and that's the way it is" then that trust is affected. -- Andrei

Then I think you should trust Sönke with the decision.

It's trivial to choose JSON when creating a new dub project and there's a link to the JSON version of dub's documentation in bold at the top of the SDLang version. SDLang is not a creation of the D community; is a *much better format* for dub package description files; and is plenty intuitive so that it's readily readable to people who don't know the language.

When I first saw this thread I was hoping it would be ignored for the massive bikeshed timesink that it is (with added spice of vitriol by the OP), so I'm really surprised core contributors would see fit to reply. `dub init` is something you almost never have to type and it takes all of three seconds to redo if you didn't get the result you wanted.

So much fuss over absolutely nothing.

On Thursday, 26 November 2015 at 04:42:14 UTC, David DeWitt wrote:

>
> Is there any document explaining how to default to JSON so it isn't necessary to specify each time? Also SDL isn't the default so if they both stay shouldn't the discussion be which is the default or if the user chooses their preference at sometime after install (maybe first project)?

If it's really so painful to type 'dub init -fjson', then sure, let's revert to JSON as the default and the rest of us can type -fsdl. I never use 'dub init' anyway, so I have no personal stake in which is the default.

On 11/26/2015 12:40 AM, Mike Parker wrote:
> If there's an issue with having SDLang as the default for 'dub init',
> then I don't see a problem with reverting to JSON as the default.

That would be great, thanks! -- Andrei P.S. "confidence" is more descriptive than "trust".

On Thursday, 26 November 2015 at 05:56:41 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
> On 11/26/2015 12:40 AM, Mike Parker wrote:
>> If there's an issue with having SDLang as the default for 'dub init',
>> then I don't see a problem with reverting to JSON as the default.
>
> That would be great, thanks! -- Andrei P.S. "confidence" is more descriptive than "trust".

I would say, "You're welcome", but that's Sönke's decision :)

On 2015-11-25 13:39, Kagamin wrote:

> Well, yaml is quiiite complex.

Most of that stuff are not needed for Dub config files. The features need for that are very simple and is mostly (except comments) covered by the JSON subset.

-- 
/Jacob Carlborg

On 2015-11-25 20:02, Walter Bright wrote:

> Note 2: I intend to migrate the dmd.conf file format to json.

What's the gain here compared to the breakage it will cause?

-- 
/Jacob Carlborg

On Wednesday, 25 November 2015 at 23:37:20 UTC, Jonathan M Davis wrote:
> On Wednesday, 25 November 2015 at 22:51:28 UTC, rsw0x wrote:
>> On Wednesday, 25 November 2015 at 19:12:43 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
>>> It's not. To DUB maintainers: this is a strategic error. Please throw SDL away and use a standardized file format. -- Andrei
>>
>> And in what domain is json considered a standardized -configuration- file format?
>
> I don't think that there's really _any_ format that qualifies as a standardized configuration file format,

INI files are the closest thing to that. You probably have a lot of INI-like files in your /etc/.

Rust's Cargo uses TOML, which is a structured extension of INI.