On Thu, 14 Oct 2010 22:49:17 +0200
>>>>>> "Matthias" == Matthias Pleh <gonzo@web.at> wrote:

Matthias> If you work windows-only I would suggest VisualD. It's Matthias> working great, good quality and is frequently updated.

Although I plan to write multi-platform app, my environment is Linux-only, so VS is out.

Matthias> - for the short term: -> CodeBlocks - already working out of Matthias> the box with several D compiler

I'd prefer to start with some longer-term solution 'cause at the moment I'm still waiting for my TDPL copy to arrive and I'll have to spend some time learning D, but it would be nice to become familiar with the tool we'll use later.

Matthias> - for the middle term: -> adding support to QtCreator -> it's Matthias> really good piece of Code and through the plugin sytem very Matthias> flexible.

Do you consider that adding support for QtCreator may yield a better D-environment than adding (more) support to Code:Blocks?

Matthias> - for the long term: -> we will need an IDE written in D, but Matthias> first we need a good working D GUI library

I agree on that, but this it far in the future. D-dev is in the beginning and, so far, Win only.

Matthias> As conclusion I would suggest b) QtCreator

Is there ANY specific D-support in QtCreator at the moment?


Sincerely,
Gour

-- 

Gour  | Hlapicina, Croatia  | GPG key: CDBF17CA
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Gour D. wrote:

> Matthias> - for the short term: -> CodeBlocks - already working out of
> Matthias> the box with several D compiler
> 
> I'd prefer to start with some longer-term solution 'cause at the
> moment I'm still waiting for my TDPL copy to arrive and I'll have to
> spend some time learning D, but it would be nice to become familiar
> with the tool we'll use later.

Code::Blocks support is working for the old D language,
but that is not what is in TDPL book - as it's all D2.

There's support for D2 in wxD CVS and in Code::Blocks
sandbox, but as there is no upstream support for them -
it makes more "sense" for Code::Blocks to support the
Free Software GDC compiler and the released wxWidgets.

Or at least it did when D 1.0 was released back in 2007.
If starting over for D 2.0 in 2011, QtD might be better ?

http://wxd.sourceforge.net/
http://gdcwin.sourceforge.net/
http://gdcgnu.sourceforge.net/
http://gdcmac.sourceforge.net/

> Matthias> - for the middle term: -> adding support to QtCreator -> it's
> Matthias> really good piece of Code and through the plugin sytem very
> Matthias> flexible.
> 
> Do you consider that adding support for QtCreator may yield a better
> D-environment than adding (more) support to Code:Blocks?

It should make for a better *QtD* environment, at least...
Since it has integration with Qt Assistant and Qt Designer.

I don't think using a C++ library and C++ editor is a problem,
any more than it's a problem with using a C++ compiler for D ?


> Matthias> - for the long term: -> we will need an IDE written in D, but
> Matthias> first we need a good working D GUI library
> 
> I agree on that, but this it far in the future. D-dev is in the
> beginning and, so far, Win only.

"D.dev" is not open source, either*. There's also "BDE".

*http://www.digitalmars.com/d/archives/digitalmars/D/announce/D.dev_development_status_update_19051.html

http://d-dev-ide.blogspot.com/

http://bitprox.com/en/products_bde_index.html

> Matthias> As conclusion I would suggest b) QtCreator
> 
> Is there ANY specific D-support in QtCreator at the moment?

I said I would push those patches, but not upstream no.
To http://gitorious.org/~afb (qmake and qtcreator hacks).
Just having some minor "technical difficulties" doing so,
I had used my regular Qt 4.6 / Qt Creator 1.3 installation.

The patches are trivial, adding some new Makefile commands
to qmake for D files and adding D files to "Sources" view.

Real work is making the syntax highlighter work for D code,
either by reusing an existing component or writing a new one,
and make the editor work for D code as good as for C++ now:
http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qtcreator-2.0/creator-editor-using.html

All of that is still left as an exercise for the D2 reader.
I am *not* going to be working on it, as I'm not using it...

--anders

On Fri, 15 Oct 2010 13:10:50 +0200
>>>>>> "Anders" == Anders F Björklund <afb@algonet.se> wrote:

Anders> Code::Blocks support is working for the old D language, Anders> but that is not what is in TDPL book - as it's all D2.

Ahh...thanks.

Anders> There's support for D2 in wxD CVS and in Code::Blocks Anders> sandbox, but as there is no upstream support for them - Anders> it makes more "sense" for Code::Blocks to support the Anders> Free Software GDC compiler and the released wxWidgets.

Well, we are looking for IDE with good Qt support.

Anders> Or at least it did when D 1.0 was released back in 2007. Anders> If starting over for D 2.0 in 2011, QtD might be better ?

I'm still doubtful that QtD might get decent support in C:B.

Even Qt C++ support is lacking, afaict.

Anders> It should make for a better *QtD* environment, at least... Anders> Since it has integration with Qt Assistant and Qt Designer.

Right...and we want that.

Anders> I don't think using a C++ library and C++ editor is a problem, Anders> any more than it's a problem with using a C++ compiler for D ?

Today one guy from Qt (andre) showed me about out-of-the-box 'support' for D: http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/9484/86764766.png

I've also found the following blog post:

http://labs.qt.nokia.com/2010/09/16/generic-highlighter-in-qt-creator/

It looks as inspiring start for (Qt)D programming.

Anders> "D.dev" is not open source, either*.

Ohh, another reason not to count on it.

Anders> I said I would push those patches, but not upstream no.

You think they wouldn't be accepted?

Anders> To http://gitorious.org/~afb (qmake and qtcreator hacks).

OK.

Anders> Real work is making the syntax highlighter work for D code, Anders> either by reusing an existing component or writing a new one, Anders> and make the editor work for D code as good as for C++ now:

See then the above link about syntax high. via Kate's syntax files in 2.1 trunk of QtC.

Anders> All of that is still left as an exercise for the D2 reader. Anders> I am *not* going to be working on it, as I'm not using it...

You're not using any GUI with D or using Codeblocks or ..?


Sincerely,
Gour

-- 

Gour  | Hlapicina, Croatia  | GPG key: CDBF17CA
----------------------------------------------------------------

Gour D. wrote:
> Anders> Or at least it did when D 1.0 was released back in 2007.
> Anders> If starting over for D 2.0 in 2011, QtD might be better ?
> 
> I'm still doubtful that QtD might get decent support in C:B.
> 
> Even Qt C++ support is lacking, afaict.

Wouldn't surprise me. The wxWidgets support is better, but that
uses GTK+ not Qt. (at least until wxQt has been released, that is)

> Today one guy from Qt (andre) showed me about out-of-the-box 'support'
> for D: http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/9484/86764766.png
> 
> I've also found the following blog post:
> 
> http://labs.qt.nokia.com/2010/09/16/generic-highlighter-in-qt-creator/
> 
> It looks as inspiring start for (Qt)D programming.

Right, that would be just such an implementation of QSyntaxHighlighter.

> Anders> I said I would push those patches, but not upstream no.
> 
> You think they wouldn't be accepted?

You asked what is in Qt Creator at the moment, and I don't think that
anything specific to D had been added so far (except the "generic") ?

> Anders> All of that is still left as an exercise for the D2 reader.
> Anders> I am *not* going to be working on it, as I'm not using it...
> 
> You're not using any GUI with D or using Codeblocks or ..?

I'm not using D... Might try again, once D2 is available for 64-bit.

I just wanted something that was better than C and faster than Java,
not something that was better than C++. So I'll go with Objective-C.

Most of the time it will be Python, though. With some bits of C added.

--anders

On Fri, 15 Oct 2010 16:44:49 +0200
>>>>>> "Anders" == Anders F Björklund <afb@algonet.se> wrote:

Anders> Wouldn't surprise me. The wxWidgets support is better, but that Anders> uses GTK+ not Qt. (at least until wxQt has been released, that Anders> is)

Yeah...it seems that wxQt is advancing nicely.

Anders> You asked what is in Qt Creator at the moment, and I don't Anders> think that anything specific to D had been added so far (except Anders> the "generic") ?

Correct...and 'generic' provides something...It should be possible to
use 'generic' build (with Waf).

Anders> I'm not using D... Might try again, once D2 is available for Anders> 64-bit.

Hopefully 64bit D2 will arrive soon. I'm in the same boat. ;)

Anders> I just wanted something that was better than C and faster than Anders> Java, not something that was better than C++. So I'll go with Anders> Objective-C.

Isn't Objective-C mostly just Apple & Mac OS?

Anders> Most of the time it will be Python, though. With some bits of C Anders> added.

I'll use Python to tweak my Waf builds. :-)


Sincerely,
Gour

-- 

Gour  | Hlapicina, Croatia  | GPG key: CDBF17CA
----------------------------------------------------------------

Gour D. wrote:
> Anders> You asked what is in Qt Creator at the moment, and I don't
> Anders> think that anything specific to D had been added so far (except
> Anders> the "generic") ?
> 
> Correct...and 'generic' provides something...It should be possible to
> use 'generic' build (with Waf).

Will have to update to Qt 4.7 and Qt Creator 2.0 then...

Does Qt Creator support Waf, or does that need patching ?

> Anders> I just wanted something that was better than C and faster than
> Anders> Java, not something that was better than C++. So I'll go with
> Anders> Objective-C.
> 
> Isn't Objective-C mostly just Apple & Mac OS?

Right. Theoretically there is GCC and GNUstep too, but.

When doing something portable, it's all in C/C++ still...

> Anders> Most of the time it will be Python, though. With some bits of C
> Anders> added.
> 
> I'll use Python to tweak my Waf builds. :-)

Yeah, C++ and Python are unfortunate standard solutions.

I don't care much for Waf or any other Make replacements.

--anders

On Sun, 17 Oct 2010 13:30:25 +0200
>>>>>> "Anders" == Anders F Björklund <afb@algonet.se> wrote:

Anders> Does Qt Creator support Waf, or does that need patching ?

No, but I believe that, according to what I heard one can just use 'generic build'.

With waf, one can use 'standard': waf configure build

Anders> I don't care much for Waf or any other Make replacements.

Ohh, I do... ;)


Sincerely,
Gour

-- 

Gour  | Hlapicina, Croatia  | GPG key: CDBF17CA
----------------------------------------------------------------

Has anything come out of this? If not, is it possible that you commit what you have to a gitorious project or somewhere so that your work is not lost?

I cannot take on such a project myself but am definitely interested, perhaps just making the basics work with the kate style syntax highlighting for now.