On Thu, 21 Oct 2010 08:43:22 +0200, Gour wrote:

> On Wed, 20 Oct 2010 19:39:12 -0500
>>>>>>> "Andrei" == Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
> 
> Andrei> If that's feasible, sure! Does anyone know the right people?
> 
> Afaik, it involves getting written & signed papers from all the contributors sent to FSF...iow, it's not so easy and therefore I believe that for now it's better to just create public repo as Russel has suggested below:
> 
> Russel> Works for me.  I'll delay creating a Launchpad project and Russel> team, and establishing a Bazaar branch as the trunk until Russel> Andrei gives approval to the plan ;-)
> 
> In parallel to that, it's possible to research further what is required to include d-mode in Emacs itself, but, as I wrote in another post, it can be win/win - having both separate project and being included in Emacs by submitting specific release prior to official release of Emacs.

Consider including it in ELPA, the (relatively new) Emacs Lisp Package
Archive project:

http://tromey.com/elpa/upload.html http://emacs-fu.blogspot.com/2009/04/elpa.html

It works really well as a package manager for Elisp projects. You are encouraged to assign your code to FSF, but it's not mandatory.

Best,
Graham

On Wed, 2010-10-20 at 22:24 +0100, Russel Winder wrote:
[ . . . ]
> Works for me.  I'll delay creating a Launchpad project and team, and establishing a Bazaar branch as the trunk until Andrei gives approval to the plan ;-)

OK, I created a project on Launchpad. https://launchpad.net/emacs-d-mode.  There are currently two Bazaar branches lp:~russel/emacs-d-mode/original and lp:~russel/emacs-d-mode/emacs23 (which is a branch of original with the Emacs23 hack -- which really needs sorting out and turning into a proper fix.  I have made the emacs23 branch the trunk so lp:emacs-d-mode is the Emacs 23 branch.

As I understand it Bazaar is the official version control system for Emacs.

For the moment I am the owner of the project and the branches, so by fiat have elected myself as the maintainer -- I guess I should amend the mode source to reflect this.  I have though also created an Emacs D Mode Maintainers team, so if others are interested in helping with this then they can join the team and I can pass ownership of the project and branches to the team.

If you are using Emacs and want to use this mode then you branch the branch to somewhere on your filestore and put a link into your Emacs modes directory:

        cd <some-sane-path-for-Bazaar-branches> ; bzr branch lp:emacs-d-mode Emacs-D-Mode
        cd ~/.emacs.d ; ln -s <some-sane-path-for-Bazaar-branches>/Emacs-D-Mode/d-mode.el .

replacing <some-sane-path-for-Bazaar-branches> with a valid path for your system.  The first line works for all operating systems (assuming you have Bazaar installed), the second line works on all the operating systems I use.  This means Windows users are on their own!

So now the question is how to amend the various web pages:

http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/DMode http://www.wikiservice.at/d/wiki.cgi?EditorSupport/EmacsEditor http://www.wikiservice.at/d/wiki.cgi?EditorSupport/EmacsDMode http://www.prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?EditorSupport/EmacsDMode

to name but four, to reflect the fact that these Bazaar branches are the master sources of the mode and not the text on the wiki pages?  Clearly the mechanism is press the edit button and do the editing, what I mean is what to do about agreeing what to evolve the content to?

I note that we need to begin a campaign to get D Mode into the Emacs repository/distribution/etc.  I am going to propose that I volunteer myself to do this as I am also involved with the Groovy mode and so I can "kill two birds with one stone" by working to get both these modes in.  Given that both modes are based on CC Mode, I propose to approach the CC Mode maintainer and ask his advice.  Does this seem reasonable?


-- 
Russel. ============================================================================= Dr Russel Winder      t: +44 20 7585 2200   voip: sip:russel.winder@ekiga.net 41 Buckmaster Road    m: +44 7770 465 077   xmpp: russel@russel.org.uk London SW11 1EN, UK   w: www.russel.org.uk  skype: russel_winder

On Wed, 2010-10-20 at 17:37 -0500, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: [ . . . ]
> At any rate, the mode should stay downloadable off digitalmars.com (it already is: http://www.digitalmars.com/d/dlinks.html). So please keep me in the loop.

The D-Mode link points to http://home.comcast.net/~benhinkle/d-mode.zip which seems distinctly out of date compared to the information on http://www.wikiservice.at/d/wiki.cgi?EditorSupport/EmacsEditor and http://www.wikiservice.at/d/wiki.cgi?EditorSupport/EmacsDMode.  I guess all of this needs updating en bloc?

I will investigate ensuring that there is a download file on the Launchpad site so that people can get the current version without using Bazaar.  This can then replace the Hinkle zipfile as the target of the download link on the DigitalMars page.

What is the protocol for getting listed as a "D Consultant"?

Currently the "D Consultants" link points to http://www.tionex.de/de/dater/dater.html


-- 
Russel. ============================================================================= Dr Russel Winder      t: +44 20 7585 2200   voip: sip:russel.winder@ekiga.net 41 Buckmaster Road    m: +44 7770 465 077   xmpp: russel@russel.org.uk London SW11 1EN, UK   w: www.russel.org.uk  skype: russel_winder

On Wed, 2010-10-20 at 17:37 -0500, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: [ . . . ]
> At any rate, the mode should stay downloadable off digitalmars.com (it already is: http://www.digitalmars.com/d/dlinks.html). So please keep me in the loop.

I have set up the Launchpad page so that the E-Lisp file (or a tarball if the mode ever becomes a multi-file distribution) can be downloaded easily.  cf.   https://launchpad.net/emacs-d-mode which has a big green download area lower right.  The actual URL for the file is release specific and so should not be quoted anywhere directly so as to avoid being outdated as new releases are made.

-- 
Russel. ============================================================================= Dr Russel Winder      t: +44 20 7585 2200   voip: sip:russel.winder@ekiga.net 41 Buckmaster Road    m: +44 7770 465 077   xmpp: russel@russel.org.uk London SW11 1EN, UK   w: www.russel.org.uk  skype: russel_winder

On Sat, 23 Oct 2010 06:50:10 +0100
>>>>>> "Russel" == Russel Winder wrote:

Russel> OK, I created a project on Launchpad.
Russel> https://launchpad.net/emacs-d-mode.  There are currently two
Russel> Bazaar branches lp:~russel/emacs-d-mode/original and
Russel> lp:~russel/emacs-d-mode/emacs23 (which is a branch of original
Russel> with the Emacs23 hack -- which really needs sorting out and
Russel> turning into a proper fix.  I have made the emacs23 branch the
Russel> trunk so lp:emacs-d-mode is the Emacs 23 branch.

Thank you very much for doing it.

Russel> I note that we need to begin a campaign to get D Mode into the Russel> Emacs repository/distribution/etc.  I am going to propose that Russel> I volunteer myself to do this as I am also involved with the Russel> Groovy mode and so I can "kill two birds with one stone" by Russel> working to get both these modes in.  Given that both modes are Russel> based on CC Mode, I propose to approach the CC Mode maintainer Russel> and ask his advice.  Does this seem reasonable?

It does! Please, go for it.


Sincerely,
Gour

-- 

Gour  | Hlapicina, Croatia  | GPG key: CDBF17CA
----------------------------------------------------------------

On Sat, 23 Oct 2010 07:27:57 +0100
>>>>>> "Russel" == Russel Winder wrote:

Russel> I have set up the Launchpad page so that the E-Lisp file (or a Russel> tarball if the mode ever becomes a multi-file distribution) can Russel> be downloaded easily.  cf.   https://launchpad.net/emacs-d-mode Russel> which has a big green download area lower right.  The actual Russel> URL for the file is release specific and so should not be Russel> quoted anywhere directly so as to avoid being outdated as new Russel> releases are made.

I've created package for Archlinux - see:

http://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=42144


Sincerely,
Gour

-- 

Gour  | Hlapicina, Croatia  | GPG key: CDBF17CA
----------------------------------------------------------------

Gour,

On Sun, 2010-10-24 at 09:31 +0200, Gour wrote:
> On Sat, 23 Oct 2010 07:27:57 +0100
> >>>>>> "Russel" == Russel Winder wrote:
> 
> Russel> I have set up the Launchpad page so that the E-Lisp file (or a Russel> tarball if the mode ever becomes a multi-file distribution) can Russel> be downloaded easily.  cf.   https://launchpad.net/emacs-d-mode Russel> which has a big green download area lower right.  The actual Russel> URL for the file is release specific and so should not be Russel> quoted anywhere directly so as to avoid being outdated as new Russel> releases are made.
> 
> I've created package for Archlinux - see:
> 
> http://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=42144

I guess this means we should campaign to get a package into Debian (and
thence Ubuntu), and MacPorts.

I'll see if I can get the people who do the Groovy and Gant packages for these systems to help me find the right people or just do it to get rid of me!

I am away for the enxt few days, likely with zero access to the Internet, so it will be next week before I can get onto this.

-- 
Russel. ============================================================================= Dr Russel Winder      t: +44 20 7585 2200   voip: sip:russel.winder@ekiga.net 41 Buckmaster Road    m: +44 7770 465 077   xmpp: russel@russel.org.uk London SW11 1EN, UK   w: www.russel.org.uk  skype: russel_winder

Gour schrieb:
> On Wed, 20 Oct 2010 19:39:12 -0500
>>>>>>> "Andrei" == Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
> 
> Andrei> If that's feasible, sure! Does anyone know the right people?
> 
> Afaik, it involves getting written & signed papers from all the
> contributors sent to FSF...iow, it's not so easy and therefore I
> believe that for now it's better to just create public repo as Russel
> has suggested below: 
> 
(...)
> 
> p.s. Here is snippet from http://orgmode.org/worg/org-contribute.php
> saying:
> 
> <quote>
> Copyright issues when contributing to Emacs org-mode
> 
> Org is made of many files. Most of them are also distributed as part
> of GNU Emacs. These files are called the Org core, and they are all
> copyrighted by the Free Software Foundation, Inc. If you consider
> contributing to these files, your first need to grant the right to
> include your works in GNU Emacs to the FSF. For this you need to
> complete this form, send it to assign@gnu.org, and tell the Org-mode
> maintainer when this process is complete. Some people consider this a
> hassle. I don't want to discuss this in detail here - there are some
> good reasons for getting the copyright registered, an example is
> discussed in this FLOSS weekly podcast. Furthermore, by playing
> according to the Emacs rules, we gain the fantastic advantage that
> every version of Emacs ships with Org-mode already fully built in. So
> please consider doing this - it makes our work as maintainers so much
> easier, because we can then take your patches without any additional
> work. </quote>
> 

It's ridiculous that the FSF doesn't trust their own license (GPL) and wants to have the copyright for any code in "their" software like GCC or Emacs.
How can they tell people that it's great to have open source software because you can share code / use foreign code, as long as you follow the licenses, when they don't dare to trust foreign GPL code themselves?

(PS: I *do* like the idea of open source and even the GPL - even though it's not appropriate for everything of course.)

Russel Winder wrote:
> I note that we need to begin a campaign to get D Mode into the Emacs
> repository/distribution/etc.  I am going to propose that I volunteer
> myself to do this as I am also involved with the Groovy mode and so I
> can "kill two birds with one stone" by working to get both these modes
> in.  Given that both modes are based on CC Mode, I propose to approach
> the CC Mode maintainer and ask his advice.  Does this seem reasonable?

Yes, please!

Daniel Gibson wrote:
> It's ridiculous that the FSF doesn't trust their own license (GPL) and
> wants to have the copyright for any code in "their" software like GCC or
> Emacs.
> How can they tell people that it's great to have open source software
> because you can share code / use foreign code, as long as you follow the
> licenses, when they don't dare to trust foreign GPL code themselves?
> 
	AIUI, it's not so much a matter of trusting the license as it is a
matter of being able to defend it: if someone violates the license
they will not be able to attack the violator if they are not the
copyright holder.

	Remember that to the FSF, the GPL isn't just (or even primarily) a
license. It is above else a weapon to push their vision of open
source software forward. A GPL that they cannot enforce in front of
a judge is useless to them.

		Jerome
-- 
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