On Thursday, January 03, 2013 17:59:22 deadalnix wrote:
> On Thursday, 3 January 2013 at 16:43:06 UTC, bearophile wrote:
> > deadalnix:
> >> I still have code broken all over the place.
> > 
> > D2 is getting its corner case problems sorted out and fixed, but this still causes some breakage in user code. As more people use D2, issues are found, discussed and fixed, the breakages will get more and more uncommon.
> 
> Is this breakage intended ? To me it doesn't make sense, the generated code is :
> 
> (Bar bar = Bar.init; , bar).this()

It is most definitely intended. ref requires an lvalue. A struct literal is a temporary and therefore should be an rvalue, not an lvalue.

Before, you had the stupid situation of

foo(Bar()); //compiles
foo(funcWhichReturnsBar()); //fails to compile

Both are dealing with temporaries, so both should be rvalues, and neither should compile. You need an actual variable or other non-temporary memory location (e.g. dereferenced pointer) if you want to pass an argument to a ref function. The previous behavior was broken and should have been fixed ages ago.

- Jonathan M Davis

Am Thu, 03 Jan 2013 17:43:03 +0100
schrieb "bearophile" <bearophileHUGS@lycos.com>:

> deadalnix:
> 
> > I still have code broken all over the place.
> 
> D2 is getting its corner case problems sorted out and fixed, but this still causes some breakage in user code. As more people use D2, issues are found, discussed and fixed, the breakages will get more and more uncommon.
> 
> Bye,
> bearophile

I agree. But we should probably start shipping minor releases. For example regression fixes in 2.061 in the next 2 weeks could be merged into the 2.061 branch as well and we could ship a 2.061.1 release with those fixes.

On 1/3/2013 2:17 AM, Russel Winder wrote:
> The very existence of TRIM indicates a systemic
> problem.

I think you misunderstand what TRIM is. Nobody anticipated a need for TRIM before SSDs, so no operating system issued TRIM commands.

It's like saying C has a systemic problem because it doesn't support virtual function calls.

On Thursday, January 03, 2013 10:26:51 Walter Bright wrote:
> 2. Third parties don't have access to my email history. I don't care what their "privacy policy" says - if they have it, they will use it as they please. You have no way to even discover what they do with it

Unless you're managing your own e-mail server (which you may be doing - I have no idea), then even if you store your e-mail locally and delete it from the server, you're still not saved from this. Just because it's deleted from your e-mail account doesn't mean that they don't still have copies, just that you don't have access anymore. Of course, if you're managing your own e-mail server, then I don't know what you'd gain from storing it locally instead of keeping it on the server.

- Jonathan M Davis

On 1/3/2013 2:40 AM, Russel Winder wrote:
> On Thu, 2013-01-03 at 01:26 -0800, Walter Bright wrote:
> […]
>> Windows 7 has TRIM support, Windows XP does not. I have an SSD drive in an XP
>> machine, it runs as slow as a spinning disk. An SSD in Win7, with TRIM, runs
>> like lightning.
>
> Linux had TRIM support since 2008, but until late 2010 it wasn't easy to
> work with.  Since then (> 2.6.33) Linux support for TRIM has been fine
> as long as you use ext4 filestores. You just have to add the discard
> property to the partition mount in fstab.

Unfortunately, I'm the Ubuntu user who sticks an SSD drive into the machine, and then pushes the button "Install Ubuntu!".

What do I get?

What you say is like the bad older versions of Ubuntu, which would not recognize my screen. I always had to edit some config file that changed location and contents with every new version, and the actual commands to write in there were impossible to find documentation on. So it was trying random things, hoping you wouldn't bork it so bad you couldn't see anything on the display.

The newer Ubuntus, thankfully, just work with the display.

On 1/3/2013 10:11 AM, Ali Çehreli wrote:
> On 01/01/2013 03:46 PM, Walter Bright wrote:
>
>  > 1. the dlang.org isn't updated yet.
>
> Is the change log available somewhere else? I want to spread the news but it is
> not very interesting without knowing what has changed. :)

http://dlang.org/changelog.html

On Thu, 2013-01-03 at 10:26 -0800, Walter Bright wrote: […]
> 1. I control the backups

I run my own SMTP and IMAP server, including it's backing up. I like control!

> 2. Third parties don't have access to my email history. I don't care what their "privacy policy" says - if they have it, they will use it as they please. You have no way to even discover what they do with it

I run my own SMTP and IMAP server, so no third party.

The NSA have all emails, no matter who else has them.

> 3. I've had email servers controlled by others "go dark", and poof, all email gone

As I run my own SMTP and IMAP server, if it goes dark then either my server blew up or my ISP disconnected me. Email not gone due to backup strategy :-)

> 4. I *need* my old email. More than once it has saved me from a lawsuit

I run my own SMTP and IMAP server, including it's backing up.  Old email for some threads is definitely worth keeping.

I agree with not relying on an email service such as Google, etc.

-- 
Russel. ============================================================================= Dr Russel Winder      t: +44 20 7585 2200   voip: sip:russel.winder@ekiga.net 41 Buckmaster Road    m: +44 7770 465 077   xmpp: russel@winder.org.uk London SW11 1EN, UK   w: www.russel.org.uk  skype: russel_winder

On 01/03/2013 01:26 PM, Walter Bright wrote:
> On 1/3/2013 1:22 AM, Russel Winder wrote:
>> I don't see that local or server-based storage makes any difference to
>> the ability to manage email. But maybe I am missing something about your
>> particular workflow.
>
> 1. I control the backups

The hosting company I use (csoft.net) has ssh access so, in addition to their backups, I go in once and month and run one was well.

> 2. Third parties don't have access to my email history. I don't care
> what their "privacy policy" says - if they have it, they will use it as
> they please. You have no way to even discover what they do with it

Unless you encrypt all your email, anything that goes to and fro is subject to snooping. Now, you'll likely make a valid point about them not having *all* the history, and this is a fair point. However, I assume that everyone has everything I've ever sent in the clear. After all, you don't think all those acres of computers under various agencies' headquarters are running SETI@Home, do you?

Now, where did I leave my tinfoil hat...

> 3. I've had email servers controlled by others "go dark", and poof, all
> email gone

That's what backups are for. You could also run a fetchmail process locally to sync at a more rapid speed, so you get a local copy of everything and get the benefit of cross-device syncing.

> 4. I *need* my old email. More than once it has saved me from a lawsuit

No argument there. I have stuff going back to 1995 or so (and, ironically, the way I migrated from one mail client to another was to shove a boatload of POP email up to IMAP then leave it there), because there was no export function - which is what started this conversation in the first place!
-- 
Matthew Caron, Software Build Engineer
Sixnet, a Red Lion business | www.sixnet.com
+1 (518) 877-5173 x138 office

On 01/03/2013 01:36 PM, Walter Bright wrote:
> On 1/3/2013 3:27 AM, Jacob Carlborg wrote:
>> I can also add that the latest upgrades I have performed I cloned the
>> hard drive
>> containing the OS. Then I perform the upgrade on the clone, if
>> everything works
>> ok I either run the clone instead or does the same on the original disk.
>
>
> That's probably the best idea.

A bootable rescue CD containing ddrescue is excellent in this regard. I've been using SystemRescueCD of late:

http://www.sysresccd.org/SystemRescueCd_Homepage

I image my Windows machine using ddrescue because reinstalling Linux takes 2 hours - reinstalling Windows takes 2 weeks. :-)


-- 
Matthew Caron, Software Build Engineer
Sixnet, a Red Lion business | www.sixnet.com
+1 (518) 877-5173 x138 office

On 1/3/2013 10:41 AM, Jonathan M Davis wrote:
> Unless you're managing your own e-mail server (which you may be doing - I have
> no idea), then even if you store your e-mail locally and delete it from the
> server, you're still not saved from this.

I know - but it's less likely, and most ISPs delete that stuff after a few months.