"lurker" <lurker@lurk.com> wrote ...
> all it takes to mess up a online community is a determined kretin.

The damage done by trolls, puppeteers, fud-mongers and their ilk is at the core of every rotted community. So yes, we agree that one determined, anonymous, malicious moron can indeed mess up an online community. It's no secret who you are, behind the curtain, for those who care to dig a little.

Cheers!

Kris Wrote:


> 5) I've witnessed you make two calls for forum moderation. Most recently, I believe the call was with regard to Ty Tower? You do realize, I hope, that moderation takes many forms, and that perhaps some of your posts warrant moderation also? Certainly, the death-threats and Nazi-style propoganda eminating from Mr Tower is of a rather different nature, yet moderation is still moderation. Pot calling the kettle black seems like double-standard #5


Err Death threats?  I said" if I had my way I would shoot you". Bit of difference to a death threat if you think about it . Kinda convenient for your tirade though heh?

And Nazi style propaganda ! You exagerate grossly when it suits .

Kris Wrote:
> "lurker" <lurker@lurk.com> wrote ...
> > all it takes to mess up a online community is a determined kretin.
> 
> The damage done by trolls, puppeteers, fud-mongers and their ilk is at the core of every rotted community. So yes, we agree that one determined, anonymous, malicious moron can indeed mess up an online community. It's no secret who you are, behind the curtain, for those who care to dig a little.

yeah i am the guy who was stealing your sandwiches in kindergarten.

kretinis just go. we'll be so much happier.

On 12/03/2008, Kris <foo@bar.com> wrote:
> "Janice Caron" <caron800@googlemail.com> wrote
>  > if there is anything specific you want me /not/
>  > to say, please tell me that too, and I'll not say it.
>
>  I'd intended to forego further posts on this topic, but you are asking for a
>  response. Pardon the delay, and I'll try to be appropriately objective:
>
>  I will stick purely to the content related to this exchange. Please do not
>  read any more into it than merely an illustration. In that vein, I'm going
>  to use the same 'opinion' of yours as before and attempt to paint an
>  alternate viewpoint for you. Here it is:
>  ------
>  Module names in mixed case!? Did the Tango folk not read the D style
>  guide where it says "Module and package names are all lower case, and
>  only contain the characters [a..z][0..9][_]", or did they just
>  purposefully decide to avoid it? If the former, that was amateurish;
>  if the latter, it was petty.
>  ------
>
>  you've
>  effectively asked me what you might do, or not do, in order to avoid opening
>  yourself up to criticism

Yes, I have. That is exactly what I am asking. Thank you for trying to answer.


>  1) Your message is making strong assertions about the intent and
>  capabilities of the targeted individuals. Think, for a moment, about how
>  you'd react if the tables were turned?

OK, well ignoring for the moment the fact that no insult was /intended/, I do fully accept that offense was /taken/.

However, it's hard to know how I can "stop" having made a post in the past, when I have already apologised for it many times. After all, in the exact same post, a little bit further down, I said: "My apologies if I come across as contentious."

The following day, on September 16th 2007, I apologised again, twice,
in two separate posts. I quote: 'I am truly sorry that use of the word
"petty" offended you. If it
helps ease tensions, then I apologise for using it.', and again: "So I
apologise if my first impression offended you".

I have also said many rather nice things about Tango. For example, two days later, on September 18th 2007: "I'm also capable of just speaking in words, and saying what I think, which is that Tango is a truly excellent body of work with some fantastic code in it." Also, on the same day: "So yes, the core body of code in Tango is excellent. The engine that does all the work is a fantastic bit of software, and not in the least bit amateurish.", as well as the further clarification: "I think it's more that words were /taken/ personally when they were not intended as such. I know that I have never criticised any individual, and never would."

Without a time-machine, I cannot un-make the post, so all can do is keep apologising, and I haven't apologised enough alreadly, allow me to do so again: I apologise.

But the point I'm making here is that since that post was made on September 15th 2007, then I "stopped" making it on September 16th. I cannot "stop" making it today or tomorrow any more than I can "stop" making it yesterday. Since I have not made any negative comments about Tango or its developers since September 16th 2007 (nor insulted any individual /ever/), can we not just agree that such posts have already, in fact, "stopped", and that it is therefore not possible for me to stop any further?


>  Along the way, you've
>  characterized that act as "malicious", as a "vendetta", a "strawman", and an
>  "attack".

Yes, the one thing which really bothers me is misrepresentation. All the rest, I can ignore, but misrepresentation is something that I do perceive as an attack, even if you don't intend it as such.

It's just, if ever anyone says "Janice says X" or "Janice thinks Y" or "Janice believes Z", where I do not, in fact, say/think/believe X, Y, or Z, or makes any statement which gives the imprerssion that I believe something other than that which I actually believe, then I feel compelled to step in and say "Wait a minute - that part's not actually true". It's not my intention to exacerbate any dispute, but I just cannot stand by and let someone else put words or opinions into my mouth.

Honestly, if someone wants to know what I think, they only have to ask me.



> Just what do you call your above "amatuerish" message?

Again, we're revisiting September, and a post (a) which was misunderstood, and (b) for which I have apologised many times. On September 18th, I asked you to "Consider the possibility that you may have misunderstood". If you did consider that, you obviously decided to disregard the possibility.

The context of the word "amateurish" was within the proposition: *IF* the developers had not read the D style guide *THEN* that would have been amateurish. Since we have now established that you guys did read the style-guide, then clearly I didn't call you amateurish.

Now, granted, I did say "petty". That, I admit. But even there, you're misreading the context. At the time, I was a newbie in this group. I didn't know you (or anyone), and I was only talking about a first impression. I'm really, really sorry that my first impression of Tango offended you, but if I were in your shoes, I'd be thinking "Hmm... why does Tango give people that first impression?", and perhaps giving some thought to presentation, rather than hammering newbies, and then holding the post against them forever. And for the record: I apologise. Again.


>  You do realize, I hope, that
>  ... perhaps some of your posts warrant
>  moderation also?

Yes, of course. I don't have any problem with that whatsoever! I never intend to offend, but if, on occasion, my words might be taken the wrong way then /of course/ they should be moderated. Same with anyone else.

So, are we good now?

I mean, I want to be able to say things like "It's not in my nature to speculate without evidence" without being criticised. Can I do that now? I ask because I believe that to be true, even if you don't, so I really don't see why I shouldn't be allowed to say that. Sure - there may have been occasions when I haven't lived up to my own standards - that's just being human - but I still have those standards. I /am/ a skeptic, and I feel I should be allowed to say that. So ... is that OK with you now? May I proceed to post in peace? And can we, at long last, put the post that upset you behind us?

== Quote from Janice Caron (caron800@googlemail.com)'s article
...
> Yes, of course. I don't have any problem with that whatsoever! I never intend to offend, but if, on occasion, my words might be taken the wrong way then /of course/ they should be moderated. Same with anyone else.
>
> So, are we good now?

I was hoping that this conversation had paused (I figured it had actually stopped) because the issue had been resolved.

(If there's still a problem, I don't know if more words will solve it.)

Janice Caron Wrote about Kris
I assume its Kris Bell , here is what he wrote about himself in his
book,well--- shared book

KRIS BELL is a Scottish pirate and wannabe musician, part-time
photographer, avid traveler, open source advocate, miscreant techie
dweeb, and a principal Tango contributor. He enjoys swimming,
cycling, sailing, and occasional hikes, and recently took up rock
climbing. Previously, he dabbled in a bit of car racing and
skydiving, and once took a flying-trapeze course (which served only
to cement his vocation of choice). He currently lives in California,
though he hails from the Scottish west coast and has a dodgy set of
bagpipes to remind him of home.
     Kris has a varied background in engineering and architecture,
spanning application servers to RAD tool sets, embedded operating
systems to graphics engines, workflow to high-performance clustering
and failover substrata. Some commercial systems he has designed/built
include enterprise and Inter-net application platforms,
factory-automation systems, carrier-grade
middleware,immersive-environment simulation, and crazy interactive
clothing. In a different age, he would probably have been a
steam-locomotive engineer, a swashbuckling Jolly Roger, or a funky
bell-ringer.

Similar origin to me the Highlander bit . That about says it all doesn't it?

However remember when you write a book on a subject you are then that expert (previously a big drip) and its hard not to assume that expert above everyone else air. Like teachers they get used to Lording it over kids and have a lot of trouble generally talking to adults. Some teachers take courses to teach themselves not to fall into this trap.

I once wrote a book about Landrovers and a fellow asked me whats my
clain to fame and I said of course "I wrote a book about
Landrovers" . Hmm he said those British cars are all a load of shit!.

Sort of took the wind out of the sails.

Ignore it Janice -say what you feel !