Lately, dmd seems to have broken support for OS X 10.5. Supporting that system is problematic for us, since we don't have 10.5 systems available for dev/test.

Currently, the build/test farm is OS X 10.7.

I don't think this is like the Windows issue. Upgrading Windows is (for me, anyway) a full day job. Upgrading OS X is inexpensive and relatively painless, the least painless of any system newer than DOS that I've experienced.

Hence, is it worthwhile to continue support for 10.5? Can we officially say that only 10.6+ is supported? Is there a significant 10.5 community that eschews OS upgrades but still expects new apps?

On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 8:52 PM, Walter Bright <newshound2@digitalmars.com>wrote:

> Lately, dmd seems to have broken support for OS X 10.5. Supporting that system is problematic for us, since we don't have 10.5 systems available for dev/test.
>
> Currently, the build/test farm is OS X 10.7.
>
> I don't think this is like the Windows issue. Upgrading Windows is (for me, anyway) a full day job. Upgrading OS X is inexpensive and relatively painless, the least painless of any system newer than DOS that I've experienced.
>
> Hence, is it worthwhile to continue support for 10.5? Can we officially say that only 10.6+ is supported? Is there a significant 10.5 community that eschews OS upgrades but still expects new apps?
>

There appears to be fewer 10.5 users than 10.4, oddly: http://update.omnigroup.com/

Regards,
Brad Anderson

"Walter Bright" <newshound2@digitalmars.com> wrote in message news:jgvfu2$gmk$1@digitalmars.com...
> Lately, dmd seems to have broken support for OS X 10.5. Supporting that system is problematic for us, since we don't have 10.5 systems available for dev/test.
>
> Currently, the build/test farm is OS X 10.7.
>
> I don't think this is like the Windows issue. Upgrading Windows is (for me, anyway) a full day job. Upgrading OS X is inexpensive and relatively painless, the least painless of any system newer than DOS that I've experienced.
>
> Hence, is it worthwhile to continue support for 10.5? Can we officially say that only 10.6+ is supported? Is there a significant 10.5 community that eschews OS upgrades but still expects new apps?

While I'm normally big on not dropping support for older things, my honest take on it is that if someone's using an Apple OS, then they've already agreed to an implicit "contract" (for lack of a better word) that they're going to need to keep upgrading to whatever's the latest hardware/software anyway. It's just the way Apple works. 'Course, as a non-Apple user, I'm not sure anything I have to say on it counts for much. So, FWIW.

On 2012-02-09 04:52, Walter Bright wrote:
> Lately, dmd seems to have broken support for OS X 10.5. Supporting that
> system is problematic for us, since we don't have 10.5 systems available
> for dev/test.
>
> Currently, the build/test farm is OS X 10.7.

That's too bad. But the same must apply to 10.6 as well, since the build/test farm runs Mac OS X 10.7. I mean it can cause problems as well since we don't have a build farm that runs 10.6.

> I don't think this is like the Windows issue. Upgrading Windows is (for
> me, anyway) a full day job. Upgrading OS X is inexpensive and relatively
> painless, the least painless of any system newer than DOS that I've
> experienced.
>
> Hence, is it worthwhile to continue support for 10.5? Can we officially
> say that only 10.6+ is supported? Is there a significant 10.5 community
> that eschews OS upgrades but still expects new apps?


-- 
/Jacob Carlborg

On 2/9/2012 12:55 AM, Jacob Carlborg wrote:
> That's too bad. But the same must apply to 10.6 as well, since the build/test
> farm runs Mac OS X 10.7. I mean it can cause problems as well since we don't
> have a build farm that runs 10.6.

Yes, except that no problems have arisen (so far!) with 10.6.

On 2/9/2012 12:55 AM, Jacob Carlborg wrote:
> 
> That's too bad. But the same must apply to 10.6 as well, since the build/test farm runs Mac OS X 10.7. I mean it can cause problems as well since we don't have a build farm that runs 10.6.
> 

If anyone wants to give me a shell account on an osx 10.6 box (or 10.5 too for that matter), I'll be happy to setup and maintain the auto-tester on it.  Feel free to shoot me an email.

Later,
Brad

Am 09.02.2012 04:52, schrieb Walter Bright:
> Lately, dmd seems to have broken support for OS X 10.5. Supporting that
> system is problematic for us, since we don't have 10.5 systems available
> for dev/test.
>
> Currently, the build/test farm is OS X 10.7.
>
> I don't think this is like the Windows issue. Upgrading Windows is (for
> me, anyway) a full day job. Upgrading OS X is inexpensive and relatively
> painless, the least painless of any system newer than DOS that I've
> experienced.
>
> Hence, is it worthwhile to continue support for 10.5? Can we officially
> say that only 10.6+ is supported? Is there a significant 10.5 community
> that eschews OS upgrades but still expects new apps?

I have a project that we actually plan to use in production in the company for which I work. They still require 10.5 support for their products so removing that support would make for a very bad situation here.

But it should be possible to get a 10.5 retail DVD and install it inside a VM.. I actually planned to do exactly this to support 10.5 nightbuilds for my own D stuff.

If support should be dropped anyway, are the issues only build-related so that e.g. gdc would still continue work on 10.5 without further work?

On 09/02/12 05:46, Brad Anderson wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 8:52 PM, Walter Bright
> <newshound2@digitalmars.com <mailto:newshound2@digitalmars.com>> wrote:
>
>     Lately, dmd seems to have broken support for OS X 10.5. Supporting
>     that system is problematic for us, since we don't have 10.5 systems
>     available for dev/test.
>
>     Currently, the build/test farm is OS X 10.7.
>
>     I don't think this is like the Windows issue. Upgrading Windows is
>     (for me, anyway) a full day job. Upgrading OS X is inexpensive and
>     relatively painless, the least painless of any system newer than DOS
>     that I've experienced.
>
>     Hence, is it worthwhile to continue support for 10.5? Can we
>     officially say that only 10.6+ is supported? Is there a significant
>     10.5 community that eschews OS upgrades but still expects new apps?
>
>
> There appears to be fewer 10.5 users than 10.4, oddly:
> http://update.omnigroup.com/

Note that 10.5 and 10.4 support PowerPC as well as x86. They have 4% PowerPC, down from about 7% at the start of 2011.
That accounts for about 25% of the combined decline of 10.4 and 10.5, and it's clearly caused by old machines being replaced.
They must date from 2006 or earlier. Surely a large fraction of the remaining 10.4 & 10.5 systems are likewise near end of life.

So it looks like:
48% 10.7
34% 10.6
15% 10.5 + 10.4
 4% PowerPC, never supported by DMD.

On 2012-02-09 10:37, Sönke Ludwig wrote:
> Am 09.02.2012 04:52, schrieb Walter Bright:
>> Lately, dmd seems to have broken support for OS X 10.5. Supporting that
>> system is problematic for us, since we don't have 10.5 systems available
>> for dev/test.
>>
>> Currently, the build/test farm is OS X 10.7.
>>
>> I don't think this is like the Windows issue. Upgrading Windows is (for
>> me, anyway) a full day job. Upgrading OS X is inexpensive and relatively
>> painless, the least painless of any system newer than DOS that I've
>> experienced.
>>
>> Hence, is it worthwhile to continue support for 10.5? Can we officially
>> say that only 10.6+ is supported? Is there a significant 10.5 community
>> that eschews OS upgrades but still expects new apps?
>
> I have a project that we actually plan to use in production in the
> company for which I work. They still require 10.5 support for their
> products so removing that support would make for a very bad situation here.
>
> But it should be possible to get a 10.5 retail DVD and install it inside
> a VM.. I actually planned to do exactly this to support 10.5 nightbuilds
> for my own D stuff.
>
> If support should be dropped anyway, are the issues only build-related
> so that e.g. gdc would still continue work on 10.5 without further work?

Yes, issue 4854 is a blocker:

http://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=4854

-- 
/Jacob Carlborg

At this point, the only people on 10.4-5 should be those with PPC macs. I think 32-bit Intel owners may be stuck on 10.6.

On Feb 8, 2012, at 9:13 PM, "Nick Sabalausky" <a@a.a> wrote:

> "Walter Bright" <newshound2@digitalmars.com> wrote in message news:jgvfu2$gmk$1@digitalmars.com...
>> Lately, dmd seems to have broken support for OS X 10.5. Supporting that system is problematic for us, since we don't have 10.5 systems available for dev/test.
>> 
>> Currently, the build/test farm is OS X 10.7.
>> 
>> I don't think this is like the Windows issue. Upgrading Windows is (for me, anyway) a full day job. Upgrading OS X is inexpensive and relatively painless, the least painless of any system newer than DOS that I've experienced.
>> 
>> Hence, is it worthwhile to continue support for 10.5? Can we officially say that only 10.6+ is supported? Is there a significant 10.5 community that eschews OS upgrades but still expects new apps?
> 
> While I'm normally big on not dropping support for older things, my honest take on it is that if someone's using an Apple OS, then they've already agreed to an implicit "contract" (for lack of a better word) that they're going to need to keep upgrading to whatever's the latest hardware/software anyway. It's just the way Apple works. 'Course, as a non-Apple user, I'm not sure anything I have to say on it counts for much. So, FWIW.
> 
>