January 27, 2012
"Stewart Gordon" <smjg_1998@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:jfsvfh$14ek$1@digitalmars.com...
> On 27/01/2012 01:36, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
> <snip>
>> Heh, yea. That's something thing I always found funny: Apple always used
>> to
>> prepackage one-button mice with their right-click-capable OSX machines
>> because "one-button mice are simpler and easier". But I never understood
>> how
>> "control-click" qualified as simpler or easier than "right-click".
> <snip>
>
> A one-button mouse _is_ simpler than a mouse with three buttons and a scroll wheel.
>
> OTOH, _using_ a one-button mouse is neither simpler nor easier....
>

Well, yea, but Apple's stated excuse for the one-button wasn't because they *are* simpler, but because they're allegedly "simpler *to use*".  I guess I mistakenly left off the "to use" part up there. Whenever Apple says "simpler", they generally mean "simpler to use", even if it's flat-out false.

> (The IT manager of my uni department back in the day told me (probably speculatively) that the reason for fewer buttons is "less to go wrong".)
>
> Stewart.


January 27, 2012
"Stewart Gordon" <smjg_1998@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:jfsuc5$12pl$1@digitalmars.com...
>
> Who decides what constitutes a "normal delete key"?

That's "normal" as in "95% of the PCs in the past 20 years." ;)  (And macs *are* "personal computers", contrary to the ads.)

FWIW though, any mention of "8-bit" does get me excited.

> Back in the days of 8-bit home computers (Spectrum, BBC, C64 et al), delete tended to mean delete to the left.  Then there was the Amstrad PCW line, with "DEL?" and "?DEL" next to each other.  Since then it's become more or less standard that delete means delete to the right, delete to the left being called backspace.
>
> (Though even on systems with both these keys, it's taken time to standardise their meanings.  I grew up partly with a primitive text editor called RPED, in which delete deleted to the left, and backspace (IIRC) just moved the cursor left.)
>
>>> Fn + Backspace, on my Macbook Pro.
>>
>> Thank you :) I will try it next time I use my macbook pro. And I forgot
>> about that Fn key!
>> Though that's pretty much standard on most laptops these days.
>
> I've been reminded of the iMac G3 that I was made to use for some of my time as a PhD student.  Just the backspace key, no delete key.  And no Fn key to make some of the keys double as different keys - those keys they felt people could live without they just left off.
>

That's really one of the main reasons I don't consider Apple to be good at design: Anytime they notice that something isn't *needed* by *all* users, they just throw out instead of leaving it as an option. They seem to feel that personal customization and preferences are an "evil" that infringes on the uniformity of their brand image (Which also explains their love for DRM and gatekeeping).


January 27, 2012
"Nick Sabalausky" <a@a.a> wrote in message news:jft09p$160q$1@digitalmars.com...
> "Stewart Gordon" <smjg_1998@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:jfsuc5$12pl$1@digitalmars.com...
>>
>> I've been reminded of the iMac G3 that I was made to use for some of my time as a PhD student.  Just the backspace key, no delete key.  And no Fn key to make some of the keys double as different keys - those keys they felt people could live without they just left off.
>>
>
> That's really one of the main reasons I don't consider Apple to be good at design: Anytime they notice that something isn't *needed* by *all* users, they just throw out instead of leaving it as an option. They seem to feel that personal customization and preferences are an "evil" that infringes on the uniformity of their brand image (Which also explains their love for DRM and gatekeeping).
>

To clarify, I don't mean "DRM" in the sense of music/videos or game-industry-rootkits. I mean in terms of using it to artificially limit what users are able/allowed to do with their own devices.


January 27, 2012
>>
>> I do Win-R all the time. Win-D is nice, too, although I tend to forget
>> about
>> it.
>
> Win-L is lock screen or "return to welcome screen" if you have that enabled.  That's a useful one.
>

Don't forget Win-E for my computer, Win-F for find and Win-Pause to open system properties.  Although since I've instaled Desktops they only work on the primary desktop which is a pain.


January 27, 2012
I think if you design an interface where the input device has only one button as opposed to multiple buttons, etc, one could argue that the result will be easier to learn. I know I always had trouble explaining the use of the right mouse button in Windows to my parents.

On Jan 26, 2012, at 5:55 PM, "Nick Sabalausky" <a@a.a> wrote:

> "Stewart Gordon" <smjg_1998@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:jfsvfh$14ek$1@digitalmars.com...
>> On 27/01/2012 01:36, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
>> <snip>
>>> Heh, yea. That's something thing I always found funny: Apple always used
>>> to
>>> prepackage one-button mice with their right-click-capable OSX machines
>>> because "one-button mice are simpler and easier". But I never understood
>>> how
>>> "control-click" qualified as simpler or easier than "right-click".
>> <snip>
>> 
>> A one-button mouse _is_ simpler than a mouse with three buttons and a scroll wheel.
>> 
>> OTOH, _using_ a one-button mouse is neither simpler nor easier....
>> 
> 
> Well, yea, but Apple's stated excuse for the one-button wasn't because they *are* simpler, but because they're allegedly "simpler *to use*".  I guess I mistakenly left off the "to use" part up there. Whenever Apple says "simpler", they generally mean "simpler to use", even if it's flat-out false.
> 
>> (The IT manager of my uni department back in the day told me (probably speculatively) that the reason for fewer buttons is "less to go wrong".)
>> 
>> Stewart.
> 
> 
January 27, 2012
On Thu, Jan 26, 2012 at 4:31 PM, Nick Sabalausky <a@a.a> wrote:
> "Sean Kelly" <sean@invisibleduck.org> wrote in message news:mailman.49.1327595627.25230.digitalmars-d@puremagic.com...
>>The command key has a long
>>history in the Unix world anyway. It's much better than
>>the Windows key that just does one thing, and something
>>I've never actually wanted to do.
>>
>>Sent from my iPhone
>
> I do Win-R all the time. Win-D is nice, too, although I tend to forget about it.
>

Since I upgraded to Windows 7, I've barely ever clicked the start menu. Windows key, type application name, enter. Probably my favorite UI change.
January 27, 2012
On Thu, Jan 26, 2012 at 6:59 AM, Nick Sabalausky <a@a.a> wrote:
> "Andrew Wiley" <wiley.andrew.j@gmail.com> wrote in message news:mailman.40.1327562674.25230.digitalmars-d@puremagic.com...
>>On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 at 3:31 PM, Nick Sabalausky <a@a.a> wrote:
>>> "Steven Schveighoffer" <schveiguy@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:op.v8nbixzyeav7ka@localhost.localdomain...
>>>>
>>>> I must rave about the trackpad on the macbook pro. The interface is so damned good, I hate going back to my linux laptop (which I must do for work).
>>>>
>>>
>>> A good trackpad?!? That seems difficult to believe. Whenever I use a
>>> laptop,
>>> I just grab/carry-around a trackball (or at least a mouse). I can barely
>>> use
>>> those touchpad things, and IBM's "clitmouse" is only a little bit better.
>>>
>>
>>YES, I'm not the only person alive using a trackball! Thumb-ball, marble, or one of those giant pool-ball things?
>
> http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Trackman-Wheel-Optical-Silver/dp/B00005NIMJ
>
> (I don't know why the price there is so high, though. They're only around
> $35-ish in stores.)

It's that high because Logitech has stopped selling them. They've been
replaced by this:
http://www.logitech.com/en-us/mice-pointers/trackballs/devices/wireless-trackball-m570

I use the Trackman Wheel as well, and when I saw what they replaced it with, I thought it would be terrible (dunno if you ever tried the Wireless Trackman, but I own one and I think it's vastly inferior to the wired version). Fortunately, the company I interned at last summer was kind enough to buy me one of the new ones when I mentioned I was a hardcore trackball user, and I think it's probably better than my Trackman Silver. The wireless works flawlessly (unlike its predecessor) and there's a lot less slop in the ball.

On the other hand, it's $60.
>
> I absolutely love it. It's my primary pointing device on *any* of my computers.
>
> Around 5-10 years ago I started getting wrist pain. I heard that trackballs were better for the wrist than mice, so I got one (this logitech one). It was really awkward the first, but I got used to it after a couple days. After two weeks it felt 100% as natural as a mouse, even for games. (Touchpads, by contrast, I was never able to get past the "really awkward" stage, even after several years with the laptop I used to have). And I haven't been having any more wrist pain since.

I never got to wrist pain, but I noticed my wrist tingling at one point and the local electronics gigantostore was trying to get rid of their stock of the Silvers. My experience pretty much matched yours.
>
> I don't even like actual mice all that much anymore (They need so much more surface area! And so much more movement. The trackball is just - ZIP! Awesome :) ).
>

The only downside I've found is that when I'm showing someone something on my computer, there's always an awkward moment when they try to move the trackball on the desk and notice that nothing happens. :D
January 27, 2012
On Thu, 26 Jan 2012 10:41:31 -0500, Steven Schveighoffer <schveiguy@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On Thu, 26 Jan 2012 10:20:38 -0500, David Nadlinger <see@klickverbot.at> wrote:
>
>> On 1/26/12 4:06 PM, Steven Schveighoffer wrote:
>>> […]And the
>>> backspace key is labeled delete, and I still don't know how to do what a
>>> normal delete key would do (delete the character that follows the
>>> cursor) can someone tell me?
>>
>> Fn + Backspace, on my Macbook Pro.
>
> Thank you :)  I will try it next time I use my macbook pro.  And I forgot about that Fn key!  Though that's pretty much standard on most laptops these days.

Tried it last night, works great!  Thanks

-Steve
January 27, 2012
On 27 January 2012 05:53, Andrew Wiley <wiley.andrew.j@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 26, 2012 at 4:31 PM, Nick Sabalausky <a@a.a> wrote:
>> "Sean Kelly" <sean@invisibleduck.org> wrote in message news:mailman.49.1327595627.25230.digitalmars-d@puremagic.com...
>>>The command key has a long
>>>history in the Unix world anyway. It's much better than
>>>the Windows key that just does one thing, and something
>>>I've never actually wanted to do.
>>>
>>>Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> I do Win-R all the time. Win-D is nice, too, although I tend to forget about it.
>>
>
> Since I upgraded to Windows 7, I've barely ever clicked the start menu. Windows key, type application name, enter. Probably my favorite UI change.

Since I've upgraded to Linux, I've barely ever used a mouse. Super key, type a vague description of the application I want, enter.

-- 
Iain Buclaw

*(p < e ? p++ : p) = (c & 0x0f) + '0';
January 27, 2012
On Fri, Jan 27, 2012 at 8:39 AM, Iain Buclaw <ibuclaw@ubuntu.com> wrote:
> On 27 January 2012 05:53, Andrew Wiley <wiley.andrew.j@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, Jan 26, 2012 at 4:31 PM, Nick Sabalausky <a@a.a> wrote:
>>> "Sean Kelly" <sean@invisibleduck.org> wrote in message news:mailman.49.1327595627.25230.digitalmars-d@puremagic.com...
>>>>The command key has a long
>>>>history in the Unix world anyway. It's much better than
>>>>the Windows key that just does one thing, and something
>>>>I've never actually wanted to do.
>>>>
>>>>Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> I do Win-R all the time. Win-D is nice, too, although I tend to forget about it.
>>>
>>
>> Since I upgraded to Windows 7, I've barely ever clicked the start menu. Windows key, type application name, enter. Probably my favorite UI change.
>
> Since I've upgraded to Linux, I've barely ever used a mouse. Super key, type a vague description of the application I want, enter.

Yes, I'm not sure whether I got this habit from Windows or Gnome 3, but I'm primarily running Windows these days, so that didn't immediately come to mind. I believe KDE4 does it too, although much more sluggishly than the other two. Haven't tried Unity at all.