April 23, 2010 Re: Things I Learned from ACCU 2010 | ||||
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Posted in reply to Clemens | Clemens wrote:
> Ah, ok. As bearophile noted, that person seems to have not much experience
> with Haskell, to put it politely. Obviously I didn't see the presentation and
> don't want to judge too harshly, but if your summary is an accurate
> representation of its take-away points, that reeks badly of intellectual
> dishonesty and FUD. See my link.
>
> Or put another way, would you like someone who has never used D before to do
> a live presentation on it and come to premature conclusions like this?
D is meant to give good results even for people who are not experts at it. If someone wrote a straightforward D app and it gave such poor results, I'd take it (and have taken such) as a problem that D needs to improve upon.
For example, Andrei has expended a great deal of effort on making the naive use of stdio also the fast way.
I will send your link to Russel, I'm sure he'd be interested.
I am also interested in *why* Russel's Pi program is a bad example of Haskell programming, it's not enough to dismiss it because Russel is not a Haskell expert.
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April 23, 2010 Re: Things I Learned from ACCU 2010 | ||||
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Posted in reply to Clemens | If only multicore programming was all about finding fibonnaci numbers or the Nth number of Pi, then maybe some of the claims in this thread would be true. :) |
April 23, 2010 Re: Things I Learned from ACCU 2010 | ||||
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Posted in reply to Walter Bright | On Fri, 23 Apr 2010 06:30:13 -0700, Walter Bright wrote:
>
> D is meant to give good results even for people who are not experts at it. If someone wrote a straightforward D app and it gave such poor results, I'd take it (and have taken such) as a problem that D needs to improve upon.
>
> For example, Andrei has expended a great deal of effort on making the naive use of stdio also the fast way.
>
> I will send your link to Russel, I'm sure he'd be interested.
>
> I am also interested in *why* Russel's Pi program is a bad example of Haskell programming, it's not enough to dismiss it because Russel is not a Haskell expert.
OK where's the naive version of the D Pi program that scales up with 1,2,4 cores? How far off are we? Is the concurrency module working with it yet?
-3.-1-4-1-5-9..
Michael Rynn
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April 23, 2010 Re: Things I Learned from ACCU 2010 | ||||
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Posted in reply to Clemens | On 04/23/2010 07:00 AM, Clemens wrote:
> (As an aside, I'm generally a bit put off by the
> hostility towards programming language research and theory in the D
> community. "We don't need no stinking theory, we'll just roll our own
> ad-hoc solution which will work much better because ivory-tower
> academics are completely out of touch with reality anyway." Bleh.)
I hope that trend has been definitively reversed.
Andrei
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April 23, 2010 Re: Things I Learned from ACCU 2010 | ||||
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Posted in reply to Walter Bright | On 04/23/2010 08:30 AM, Walter Bright wrote:
> Clemens wrote:
>> Ah, ok. As bearophile noted, that person seems to have not much
>> experience
>> with Haskell, to put it politely. Obviously I didn't see the
>> presentation and
>> don't want to judge too harshly, but if your summary is an accurate
>> representation of its take-away points, that reeks badly of intellectual
>> dishonesty and FUD. See my link.
>>
>> Or put another way, would you like someone who has never used D before
>> to do
>> a live presentation on it and come to premature conclusions like this?
>
>
> D is meant to give good results even for people who are not experts at
> it. If someone wrote a straightforward D app and it gave such poor
> results, I'd take it (and have taken such) as a problem that D needs to
> improve upon.
>
> For example, Andrei has expended a great deal of effort on making the
> naive use of stdio also the fast way.
And the correct way.
Andrei
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April 23, 2010 Re: Things I Learned from ACCU 2010 | ||||
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Posted in reply to Michael Rynn | Michael Rynn wrote:
> OK where's the naive version of the D Pi program that scales up with 1,2,4 cores? How far off are we? Is the concurrency module working with it yet?
Nobody's written a library function to parallelize a map/reduce yet.
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April 23, 2010 Re: Things I Learned from ACCU 2010 | ||||
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Posted in reply to Walter Bright | On Fri, 23 Apr 2010 11:10:48 -0300, Walter Bright <newshound1@digitalmars.com> wrote: > Michael Rynn wrote: >> OK where's the naive version of the D Pi program that scales up with 1,2,4 cores? How far off are we? Is the concurrency module working with it yet? > > Nobody's written a library function to parallelize a map/reduce yet. Dave Simcha has. Code: http://dsource.org/projects/scrapple/browser/trunk/parallelFuture/parallelFuture.d Docs: http://cis.jhu.edu/~dsimcha/parallelFuture.html |
April 23, 2010 Re: Things I Learned from ACCU 2010 | ||||
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Posted in reply to Walter Bright | Walter Bright Wrote: > Clemens wrote: > > Ah, ok. As bearophile noted, that person seems to have not much experience with Haskell, to put it politely. Obviously I didn't see the presentation and don't want to judge too harshly, but if your summary is an accurate representation of its take-away points, that reeks badly of intellectual dishonesty and FUD. See my link. > > > > Or put another way, would you like someone who has never used D before to do a live presentation on it and come to premature conclusions like this? > > > D is meant to give good results even for people who are not experts at it. If someone wrote a straightforward D app and it gave such poor results, I'd take it (and have taken such) as a problem that D needs to improve upon. Someone coming from C++ might think the following program entirely reasonable (and I did indeed make this mistake when starting with D): class A { this() { /* initialize me */ } void foo() { /* do smth */ } } void main() { A a; a.foo(); // blam - segfault right here } This is about the level of understanding that seems to have been applied to Haskell in that example. > I will send your link to Russel, I'm sure he'd be interested. > > I am also interested in *why* Russel's Pi program is a bad example of Haskell programming, it's not enough to dismiss it because Russel is not a Haskell expert. > I tried to have a look at it (not that I'm anything near a Haskell expert), but this link just gives me an empty directory: http://www.russel.org.uk/Bazaar/Pi_Quadrature |
April 23, 2010 Re: Things I Learned from ACCU 2010 | ||||
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Posted in reply to Andrei Alexandrescu | Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
> On 04/23/2010 08:30 AM, Walter Bright wrote:
>> For example, Andrei has expended a great deal of effort on making the
>> naive use of stdio also the fast way.
>
> And the correct way.
Yes.
BTW, if it isn't obvious, the Erlang and Clojure versions of the Pi program were the naive approach, and produced expected multicore results.
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April 23, 2010 Re: Things I Learned from ACCU 2010 | ||||
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Posted in reply to Robert Jacques | Robert Jacques wrote:
> On Fri, 23 Apr 2010 11:10:48 -0300, Walter Bright <newshound1@digitalmars.com> wrote:
>
>> Michael Rynn wrote:
>>> OK where's the naive version of the D Pi program that scales up with 1,2,4 cores? How far off are we? Is the concurrency module working with it yet?
>>
>> Nobody's written a library function to parallelize a map/reduce yet.
>
> Dave Simcha has.
> Code: http://dsource.org/projects/scrapple/browser/trunk/parallelFuture/parallelFuture.d
>
> Docs: http://cis.jhu.edu/~dsimcha/parallelFuture.html
Cool!
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