May 26, 2010
On Thu, 27 May 2010, Masahiro Nakagawa wrote:

> On Sun, 23 May 2010 22:50:14 +0900, Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail@erdani.org> wrote:
> 
> > We've had a tremendous infusion of talent and energy in Phobos, and lately work has picked up in unprecedented ways, both in terms of new features and bug fixes. I can't say how happy I am about that!
> > 
> > At the end of this starting week, on Friday May 28, TDPL will be out on trucks to bookstores.
> > 
> > Let's make this week a bug fixing week for both dmd and Phobos, and issue a release on Monday. We're going public!
> > 
> > 
> > Andrei
> 
> I think we need improvement of DDoc.
> Current DDoc doesn't keep up with D Spec(e.g. ignore @attribute, pure,
> etc...).

Fixes are generated at the rate Walter plus several other volunteers generate them.  Care to add yourself to that set of volunteers?  The source is fully available..  Bugzilla has a lot of issues to choose your favorite(s) from...

Later,
Brad

May 27, 2010
On Thu, 27 May 2010 05:47:50 +0900, Brad Roberts <braddr@slice-2.puremagic.com> wrote:

> On Thu, 27 May 2010, Masahiro Nakagawa wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 23 May 2010 22:50:14 +0900, Andrei Alexandrescu
>> <SeeWebsiteForEmail@erdani.org> wrote:
>>
>> > We've had a tremendous infusion of talent and energy in Phobos, and  
>> lately
>> > work has picked up in unprecedented ways, both in terms of new  
>> features and
>> > bug fixes. I can't say how happy I am about that!
>> >
>> > At the end of this starting week, on Friday May 28, TDPL will be out  
>> on
>> > trucks to bookstores.
>> >
>> > Let's make this week a bug fixing week for both dmd and Phobos, and  
>> issue a
>> > release on Monday. We're going public!
>> >
>> >
>> > Andrei
>>
>> I think we need improvement of DDoc.
>> Current DDoc doesn't keep up with D Spec(e.g. ignore @attribute, pure,
>> etc...).
>
> Fixes are generated at the rate Walter plus several other volunteers
> generate them.  Care to add yourself to that set of volunteers?  The
> source is fully available..  Bugzilla has a lot of issues to choose your
> favorite(s) from...
>
> Later,
> Brad
>

Yes. I would like to fix dmd bugs.
But, I don't understand dmd internal now :(
Give me a more time.
May 27, 2010
Don wrote:
<snip>
> IMHO, one of the most important bugs to fix is actually a spec bug:
> 
> 4056 Template instantiation with bare parameter not documented
<snip>

Why single out that one?

This is the one that needs fixing most of all:

http://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=677

Stewart.
May 27, 2010
Stewart Gordon:
> This is the one that needs fixing most of all: http://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=677

I don't think Walter will fix that bug. If you think that bug is important for you, then I suggest you to find other people that agree with you, and write down the specs yourself (and then maybe Walter will read your document to tell you how to fix its errors).

This is the most voted bug, one of those votes is mine, but now I am not so sure Walter takes a look at the vote counts when he fixes bugs:
http://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=314

Bye,
bearophile
May 27, 2010
Stewart Gordon wrote:
> Don wrote:
> <snip>
>> IMHO, one of the most important bugs to fix is actually a spec bug:
>>
>> 4056 Template instantiation with bare parameter not documented
> <snip>
> 
> Why single out that one?

Because it's a feature that is used in almost every non-trivial D2 program, and the spec gives no hint that it even exists. Without it, you can't even make sense of many of the Phobos docs. It's an absolute disaster for anyone taking a first look at the language -- something which we expect to happen frequently in the next few weeks.
May 27, 2010
bearophile wrote:
> Stewart Gordon:
>> This is the one that needs fixing most of all:
>> http://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=677
> 
> I don't think Walter will fix that bug.

So you suspect that he's going to leave D until the end of time as a language that cannot be implemented by third parties because the spec is incomplete?

> If you think that bug is important for you,

And if I don't _think_ that it's important for _me_, but _know_ that it's important to _the community_, then what?

> then I suggest you to find other people that agree with you, and write down the specs yourself (and then maybe Walter will read your document to tell you how to fix its errors).

By "errors", do you mean:
* obvious typos?
* bits that don't coincide with how DMD does things?
* bits that don't coincide with how Walter intended it?
* bits that don't coincide with Walter's current opinion?
* something else?

> This is the most voted bug, one of those votes is mine, but now I am not so sure Walter takes a look at the vote counts when he fixes bugs:
<snip>

So I'd suspected.  But then, what _does_ Walter use the votes for? After all, he advertised the feature
http://www.digitalmars.com/d/archives/digitalmars/D/announce/Vote_for_your_least_favorite_bug_s_14136.html

Stewart.
May 27, 2010
Stewart Gordon wrote:
> bearophile wrote:
>> Stewart Gordon:
>>> This is the one that needs fixing most of all:
>>> http://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=677
>>
>> I don't think Walter will fix that bug.
> 
> So you suspect that he's going to leave D until the end of time as a language that cannot be implemented by third parties because the spec is incomplete?

Bearophile seems to always be very pessimistic, for some reason.

>> This is the most voted bug, one of those votes is mine, but now I am not so sure Walter takes a look at the vote counts when he fixes bugs:
> <snip>
> 
> So I'd suspected.  But then, what _does_ Walter use the votes for? After all, he advertised the feature
> http://www.digitalmars.com/d/archives/digitalmars/D/announce/Vote_for_your_least_favorite_bug_s_14136.html 

The situation is a little more complex than bearophile thinks.
For the last six months or so, Walter has concentrated on making sure that all of the examples in TDPL will work correctly. This has involved implementing all of the new features. Most of the bugs which were fixed were submitted patches (though often Walter had to modify the patches).

Votes however are definitely not ignored.
If you search bugzilla, you'll find that there are 86 closed bugs which still have votes for them! Compared with 228 open bugs.
So the votes themeselves are far from up-to-date.


May 27, 2010
On Thu, 27 May 2010 15:34:38 -0400, Don <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:

> Votes however are definitely not ignored.
> If you search bugzilla, you'll find that there are 86 closed bugs which still have votes for them! Compared with 228 open bugs.
> So the votes themeselves are far from up-to-date.

Indeed, it would be nice if bugzilla reminded you that you have votes for closed bugs.  Every time I go to vote for a bug, I remove my votes from any closed bugs (which are obvious with the strikethrough text).  But I don't notice that until I go to vote for one.  If it reminded me every time I logged in that I have votes for closed bugs, then I might pay better attention.

-Steve
May 27, 2010
Don wrote:
<snip>
> The situation is a little more complex than bearophile thinks.
> For the last six months or so, Walter has concentrated on making sure that all of the examples in TDPL will work correctly. This has involved implementing all of the new features. Most of the bugs which were fixed were submitted patches (though often Walter had to modify the patches).
> 
> Votes however are definitely not ignored.
> If you search bugzilla, you'll find that there are 86 closed bugs which still have votes for them! Compared with 228 open bugs.
> So the votes themeselves are far from up-to-date.

What search, exactly, did you do to come up with those figures?

I get:

Status: UNCONFIRMED, NEW, ASSIGNED, REOPENED
Votes: 1
gives 257

Status: UNCONFIRMED, NEW, ASSIGNED, REOPENED
Votes: 2
gives 83

Status: RESOLVED, VERIFIED, CLOSED
Votes: 1
gives 64

Status: RESOLVED, VERIFIED, CLOSED
Votes: 2
gives 21

I'd be amazed if there's been that much change in the last hour.

Peculiarly, nothing with a WONTFIX resolution has any votes.

Stewart.
May 27, 2010
Stewart Gordon wrote:
> Don wrote:
> <snip>
>> The situation is a little more complex than bearophile thinks.
>> For the last six months or so, Walter has concentrated on making sure that all of the examples in TDPL will work correctly. This has involved implementing all of the new features. Most of the bugs which were fixed were submitted patches (though often Walter had to modify the patches).
>>
>> Votes however are definitely not ignored.
>> If you search bugzilla, you'll find that there are 86 closed bugs which still have votes for them! Compared with 228 open bugs.
>> So the votes themeselves are far from up-to-date.
> 
> What search, exactly, did you do to come up with those figures?
> 
> I get:
> 
> Status: UNCONFIRMED, NEW, ASSIGNED, REOPENED
> Votes: 1
> gives 257
> 

> I'd be amazed if there's been that much change in the last hour.

Figured it out -- I did my search using Deskzilla. Although it updates its local database very frequently, it turns out that it doesn't update the votes very often at all. So I was using stale vote figures.

> Peculiarly, nothing with a WONTFIX resolution has any votes.

I think hardly anything has ever been closed with WONTFIX.