On Saturday, 9 November 2019 at 03:02:12 UTC, Gregor Mückl wrote:
> On Friday, 8 November 2019 at 20:30:28 UTC, bachmeier wrote:
>> On Friday, 8 November 2019 at 15:54:56 UTC, tchaloupka wrote:
>>
>>> Well still it's pretty unfortunate if some 3rd side app can brick the GC runtime. We can't just say to customers "You've got Eset installed? Screw you it won't work together."
>>
>> But isn't that the purpose of antivirus software? Isn't the whole point to allow it to be able to interfere with the execution of other programs?
>
> It's not OK if the interference consists of injecting random bugs into legitimate programs. Antivirus programs have a pretty awful track record in this regard. I can't think of an antivirus product that I used that didn't turn out to be defective in one way or another.
OT, but the last time I used an AV was to disinfect a relative's laptop... that already had AV on it. I don't see the point of it as a preventative measure, especially on mobile devices like phones. But, perhaps that's myopia.

On Saturday, 9 November 2019 at 03:02:12 UTC, Gregor Mückl wrote:
> On Friday, 8 November 2019 at 20:30:28 UTC, bachmeier wrote:
>> On Friday, 8 November 2019 at 15:54:56 UTC, tchaloupka wrote:
>>
>>> Well still it's pretty unfortunate if some 3rd side app can brick the GC runtime. We can't just say to customers "You've got Eset installed? Screw you it won't work together."
>>
>> But isn't that the purpose of antivirus software? Isn't the whole point to allow it to be able to interfere with the execution of other programs?
>
> It's not OK if the interference consists of injecting random bugs into legitimate programs. Antivirus programs have a pretty awful track record in this regard. I can't think of an antivirus product that I used that didn't turn out to be defective in one way or another.

When you install antivirus on your computer, you're giving it control over your computer. If other programs had a way around that, it would be useless. You could make the argument that the antivirus is crappy at its job. There's nothing the D compiler (or a compiler for any other language) can do about it.

On Saturday, 9 November 2019 at 03:02:12 UTC, Gregor Mückl wrote:
> It's not OK if the interference consists of injecting random bugs into legitimate programs. Antivirus programs have a pretty awful track record in this regard. I can't think of an antivirus product that I used that didn't turn out to be defective in one way or another.

I consider most of the AV software snake oil. They slow down your OS too.

The only AV software I trust is Windows Defender. For simple reason. It's in AV vendors best interest for your PC to be infected, because it sells their software and other "malware removal" "PC optimization" crapware. In case of Microsoft, it's in their best interest not to have any viruses at all because it reflects on them badly as a platform. Also, it's in their best interest to minimize any slowdowns and inconveniences AV brings.

Also, these are different times. In the pre-internet times virus infections were prevalent, carried over with USB drives or in drive-by Java applet/Flash attacks. Modern web environment is sandboxed well enough that it protects you from most attacks.

On Saturday, 9 November 2019 at 15:43:45 UTC, bachmeier wrote:
> On Saturday, 9 November 2019 at 03:02:12 UTC, Gregor Mückl wrote:
>> It's not OK if the interference consists of injecting random bugs into legitimate programs. Antivirus programs have a pretty awful track record in this regard. I can't think of an antivirus product that I used that didn't turn out to be defective in one way or another.
>
> When you install antivirus on your computer, you're giving it control over your computer. If other programs had a way around that, it would be useless. You could make the argument that the antivirus is crappy at its job. There's nothing the D compiler (or a compiler for any other language) can do about it.

I'm trying to make exactly that argument: ALL antivirus software I've ever used turned out to be crappy. They induced bugs in legitimate, clean programs in various ways. They were somewhat successful at stopping the occasional malicious file, but the collateral damage is not pretty. I could list a few fun examples, if you want.

There is a reason why first level support often tells people to temporarily deactivate their virus scanner and try again. This works more often than it actually should.