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March 13, 2005
Let's split!
I can't handle this volume any more.

I don't care how this newsgroup is split, but something has to be done!


I'd now have to have TWO laptops, side by side, just to see the threads. 
By the time I need a third, I'll have to give up entirely.

And to get any kind of overview, even of a single thread, I need two 
laptops vertically.

That's four laptops total.



I don't care how ingenious, or how stupid the split is!
Just any, whatever!

We (i.e. others than Walter and Matthew) can't read everything, and the 
way things are, what never gets read becomes increasingly random.

For example, I've now 425 unread posts. If I do any replies (that are 
worth something, i.e. I need to think what I write) while trying to 
catch up, I can only see the unreads growing and growing and growing.

How the hell am I supposed to start working on the meta thing, if my 
entire time goes to reading???



##############################################

Damn it! There are so many ways to split! Please, choose one if you're 
out of ideas:

  help
  suggestions
  ramblig
  serious

or

  newbies
  non-newbie-problems
  packaging
  language-discussion
  ideas
  other

or

  newbie-help
  serious-proposals
  bar-room-pseudo-philosophising
  other-bandwidth-littering
  intellectual-duels
  proper-discussion

or

  threads-started-by-authors-A..M
  threads-started-by-authors-N..Z
  threads-started-by-Walter

or

  threads-started-in-a-whim
  threads-started-just-because-im-bored
  threads-started-to-show-off
  threads-started-to-pick-on-D-or-Walter
  threads-started-because-im-frustrated-on-d-or-my-wife
  threads-which-should-not-even-have-been-started
  other-hopefully-this-is-worth-reading

WHAT-CRAPPIN-EVER! But please, do something, now.
Pretty please!

--------------------------------------------

Aw,what the heck, maybe I'll just skip this all for three weeks, till 
I've created an AI filter into my newsreader.

Sigh.
March 13, 2005
Re: Let's split!
Georg Wrede <georg.wrede@nospam.org> wrote:

> I can't handle this volume any more.
> 
> I don't care how this newsgroup is split, but something has to
> be done! 
[...]

> I don't care how ingenious, or how stupid the split is!
> Just any, whatever!
> 
> We (i.e. others than Walter and Matthew) can't read everything,
> and the way things are, what never gets read becomes
> increasingly random. 
[...]

I agree with you, that the traffic is too large to be handled by a 
single instance of human kind without automatic filtering support.

I disagree that any split would do. A random split does not 
decrease the randomness of unread posts.

So I propose a split into "misc" and "majorgoals", where the posts 
on the major design goals on D according to
http://www.digitalmars.com/d/overview.html
go into "majorgoals".

-manfred
March 13, 2005
Re: Let's split!
Well, see being that I write forum software (www.simplemachines.org) I 
personally think that newsgroups are about as disorganized as it gets. 
I mean, this group doesn't actually move *all that fast*, but it's all 
in one place mangling things around.

With newsgroups, it doesn't seem to make as much sense to break it up a 
lot, except when there are clear and distinct boundaries.

One thing that might help would be a "digitalmars.d.announce" which 
could handle all announcements (which people might want to see 
exclusively, and could be cross posted) but obviously that wouldn't 
split off that much.

Better than creating a newbies section, I think an "internals" section 
could be created.  The benefit is that all discussion relating to 
static_cast, length, const, enums, warnings, etc. could be put there... 
and newbies would probably stay away from it too.  But naming something 
newbies will not help, because newbies will not post there all of the 
time :P.

-[Unknown]


> I can't handle this volume any more.
> 
> I don't care how this newsgroup is split, but something has to be done!
> 
> 
> I'd now have to have TWO laptops, side by side, just to see the threads. 
> By the time I need a third, I'll have to give up entirely.
> 
> And to get any kind of overview, even of a single thread, I need two 
> laptops vertically.
> 
> That's four laptops total.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't care how ingenious, or how stupid the split is!
> Just any, whatever!
> 
> We (i.e. others than Walter and Matthew) can't read everything, and the 
> way things are, what never gets read becomes increasingly random.
> 
> For example, I've now 425 unread posts. If I do any replies (that are 
> worth something, i.e. I need to think what I write) while trying to 
> catch up, I can only see the unreads growing and growing and growing.
> 
> How the hell am I supposed to start working on the meta thing, if my 
> entire time goes to reading???
> 
> 
> 
> ##############################################
> 
> Damn it! There are so many ways to split! Please, choose one if you're 
> out of ideas:
> 
>   help
>   suggestions
>   ramblig
>   serious
> 
> or
> 
>   newbies
>   non-newbie-problems
>   packaging
>   language-discussion
>   ideas
>   other
> 
> or
> 
>   newbie-help
>   serious-proposals
>   bar-room-pseudo-philosophising
>   other-bandwidth-littering
>   intellectual-duels
>   proper-discussion
> 
> or
> 
>   threads-started-by-authors-A..M
>   threads-started-by-authors-N..Z
>   threads-started-by-Walter
> 
> or
> 
>   threads-started-in-a-whim
>   threads-started-just-because-im-bored
>   threads-started-to-show-off
>   threads-started-to-pick-on-D-or-Walter
>   threads-started-because-im-frustrated-on-d-or-my-wife
>   threads-which-should-not-even-have-been-started
>   other-hopefully-this-is-worth-reading
> 
> WHAT-CRAPPIN-EVER! But please, do something, now.
> Pretty please!
> 
> --------------------------------------------
> 
> Aw,what the heck, maybe I'll just skip this all for three weeks, till 
> I've created an AI filter into my newsreader.
> 
> Sigh.
March 13, 2005
Re: Let's split!
"Georg Wrede" <georg.wrede@nospam.org> wrote in message
news:42340432.4010404@nospam.org...
> I can't handle this volume any more.
>
> I don't care how this newsgroup is split, but something has to be done!
>
>
> I'd now have to have TWO laptops, side by side, just to see the threads.
> By the time I need a third, I'll have to give up entirely.
>
> And to get any kind of overview, even of a single thread, I need two
> laptops vertically.
>
> That's four laptops total.
>
>
>
> I don't care how ingenious, or how stupid the split is!
> Just any, whatever!
>
> We (i.e. others than Walter and Matthew) can't read everything, and the
> way things are, what never gets read becomes increasingly random.
>
> For example, I've now 425 unread posts.

Only? I've been in a hospital for 10 days and now have 1908 unread only in
this NG!

:-)

<snip>
March 13, 2005
Re: Let's split!
What happened to "...we are the world, we are the children.  We are the one to
make a brighter new day, so let's start giving..."  You know, "there's a choice
we're making.  We're saving our own lives.  It's true!  We'll make a better day
just you and me."  Well, something like that.  I'm sorry.  I couldn't resits.
If you all read every posts, dang, I'm in the wrong place.  I look at the title
and I say, "hhmmmm, not interested... mmmmmm, nope.... hmmmmm, what's this?  Let
me check it out."  And that's why I have catchy subjects, otherwise I would
think people would skip them.  But again, I'm just a single Dominican guy. :-)

However, we should have a beginner's or perhaps a D-QandA, where programming
questions are post.  Just a thought...

jic

Georg Wrede says...
>
>I can't handle this volume any more.
>
>I don't care how this newsgroup is split, but something has to be done!
>
>
>I'd now have to have TWO laptops, side by side, just to see the threads. 
>By the time I need a third, I'll have to give up entirely.
>
>And to get any kind of overview, even of a single thread, I need two 
>laptops vertically.
>
>That's four laptops total.
>
>
>
>I don't care how ingenious, or how stupid the split is!
>Just any, whatever!
>
>We (i.e. others than Walter and Matthew) can't read everything, and the 
>way things are, what never gets read becomes increasingly random.
>
>For example, I've now 425 unread posts. If I do any replies (that are 
>worth something, i.e. I need to think what I write) while trying to 
>catch up, I can only see the unreads growing and growing and growing.
>
>How the hell am I supposed to start working on the meta thing, if my 
>entire time goes to reading???
>
>
>
>##############################################
>
>Damn it! There are so many ways to split! Please, choose one if you're 
>out of ideas:
>
>   help
>   suggestions
>   ramblig
>   serious
>
>or
>
>   newbies
>   non-newbie-problems
>   packaging
>   language-discussion
>   ideas
>   other
>
>or
>
>   newbie-help
>   serious-proposals
>   bar-room-pseudo-philosophising
>   other-bandwidth-littering
>   intellectual-duels
>   proper-discussion
>
>or
>
>   threads-started-by-authors-A..M
>   threads-started-by-authors-N..Z
>   threads-started-by-Walter
>
>or
>
>   threads-started-in-a-whim
>   threads-started-just-because-im-bored
>   threads-started-to-show-off
>   threads-started-to-pick-on-D-or-Walter
>   threads-started-because-im-frustrated-on-d-or-my-wife
>   threads-which-should-not-even-have-been-started
>   other-hopefully-this-is-worth-reading
>
>WHAT-CRAPPIN-EVER! But please, do something, now.
>Pretty please!
>
>--------------------------------------------
>
>Aw,what the heck, maybe I'll just skip this all for three weeks, till 
>I've created an AI filter into my newsreader.
>
>Sigh.
March 13, 2005
Re: Let's split!
Georg Wrede wrote:
> I can't handle this volume any more.
> 
> I don't care how this newsgroup is split, but something has to be done!

I've been thinking the same thing for a few days, but I've been afraid 
to say it. The potential problem is (as always) that it may be difficult 
to get the messages corralled into the new groups in a consistent manner 
(especially if the purposes of the groups aren't well-established).

Here's my suggestion for the post-split groups:

dm.D
* Newbies
* General D philosophy
* "Hi, nice to meet you."
* Anything else that doesn't fit into one of the groups below.

dm.D.announce
* Announce new websites, new projects, new builds of existing projects, 
etc.
* Completely [Off Topic] threads.

dm.D.existential
* Only experts get to start threads.
* Discuss things that people who had followed the D newsgroup for a 
while have probably already noticed (but need to be discussed again)
* Discuss internal compiler/library matters ("Why is object.printf still 
there?").

dm.D.features
* Ask for something new (that someone else probably requested 6 months ago).
* Ask for a changed feature (that someone else probably requested 2 
years ago).
* Ask for semi-colons to be optional.

-- 
Justin (a/k/a jcc7)
http://jcc_7.tripod.com/d/
March 14, 2005
Re: Let's split!
J C Calvarese wrote:
> Georg Wrede wrote:
> 
>> I can't handle this volume any more.
>>
>> I don't care how this newsgroup is split, but something has to be done!
> 
> 
> I've been thinking the same thing for a few days, but I've been afraid 
> to say it. 

You ain't alone!! I bet a few others feel like it too!

ONE THING we could achieve with a split (be it whatever) is that the 
threads would hopefully get shorter, or not at least as deep!

TODAY, when somebody gets a good idea, it might be right in a deep 
thread. As there "is only one" thread, nobody is motivated to check 
whether this new idea would belong somewhere. Then they just blurt their 
idea in that thread, causing potentially lots of readers to miss the 
post, since they've skipped the entire thread in an attempt to prune 
_something_!

So, the mere existence of choice for postings, will cause people to 
_think_ where to post. Ultimately, even make it more likely to start a 
new thread, at the very least.
March 14, 2005
Re: Let's split!
> And that's why I have catchy subjects, otherwise I would
> think people would skip them.  But again, I'm just a single Dominican guy.
:-)

You do have catchy subjects ;).



"jicman" <jicman_member@pathlink.com> wrote in message
news:d11ehf$23nk$1@digitaldaemon.com...
>
> What happened to "...we are the world, we are the children.  We are the
one to
> make a brighter new day, so let's start giving..."  You know, "there's a
choice
> we're making.  We're saving our own lives.  It's true!  We'll make a
better day
> just you and me."  Well, something like that.  I'm sorry.  I couldn't
resits.
> If you all read every posts, dang, I'm in the wrong place.  I look at the
title
> and I say, "hhmmmm, not interested... mmmmmm, nope.... hmmmmm, what's
this?  Let
> me check it out."  And that's why I have catchy subjects, otherwise I
would
> think people would skip them.  But again, I'm just a single Dominican guy.
:-)
>
> However, we should have a beginner's or perhaps a D-QandA, where
programming
> questions are post.  Just a thought...
>
> jic
>
> Georg Wrede says...
> >
> >I can't handle this volume any more.
> >
> >I don't care how this newsgroup is split, but something has to be done!
> >
> >
> >I'd now have to have TWO laptops, side by side, just to see the threads.
> >By the time I need a third, I'll have to give up entirely.
> >
> >And to get any kind of overview, even of a single thread, I need two
> >laptops vertically.
> >
> >That's four laptops total.
> >
> >
> >
> >I don't care how ingenious, or how stupid the split is!
> >Just any, whatever!
> >
> >We (i.e. others than Walter and Matthew) can't read everything, and the
> >way things are, what never gets read becomes increasingly random.
> >
> >For example, I've now 425 unread posts. If I do any replies (that are
> >worth something, i.e. I need to think what I write) while trying to
> >catch up, I can only see the unreads growing and growing and growing.
> >
> >How the hell am I supposed to start working on the meta thing, if my
> >entire time goes to reading???
> >
> >
> >
> >##############################################
> >
> >Damn it! There are so many ways to split! Please, choose one if you're
> >out of ideas:
> >
> >   help
> >   suggestions
> >   ramblig
> >   serious
> >
> >or
> >
> >   newbies
> >   non-newbie-problems
> >   packaging
> >   language-discussion
> >   ideas
> >   other
> >
> >or
> >
> >   newbie-help
> >   serious-proposals
> >   bar-room-pseudo-philosophising
> >   other-bandwidth-littering
> >   intellectual-duels
> >   proper-discussion
> >
> >or
> >
> >   threads-started-by-authors-A..M
> >   threads-started-by-authors-N..Z
> >   threads-started-by-Walter
> >
> >or
> >
> >   threads-started-in-a-whim
> >   threads-started-just-because-im-bored
> >   threads-started-to-show-off
> >   threads-started-to-pick-on-D-or-Walter
> >   threads-started-because-im-frustrated-on-d-or-my-wife
> >   threads-which-should-not-even-have-been-started
> >   other-hopefully-this-is-worth-reading
> >
> >WHAT-CRAPPIN-EVER! But please, do something, now.
> >Pretty please!
> >
> >--------------------------------------------
> >
> >Aw,what the heck, maybe I'll just skip this all for three weeks, till
> >I've created an AI filter into my newsreader.
> >
> >Sigh.
>
>
March 14, 2005
Re: Let's split!
"Georg Wrede" <georg.wrede@nospam.org> wrote in message 
news:42340432.4010404@nospam.org...
>I can't handle this volume any more.
>
> I don't care how this newsgroup is split, but something has to be done!

A superficial split wouldn't hurt for things like announcements or whatever. 
But I think the real "problem" is that lots of discussion is going on.  I 
think it will die back down once ideas (and tempers) have calmed down.

If you want to help to that end, maybe you can have a poll to capture 
people's feelings about the main issues, or something.
March 14, 2005
Re: Let's split!
On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 17:48:01 -0500, Charlie Patterson wrote:

> "Georg Wrede" <georg.wrede@nospam.org> wrote in message 
> news:42340432.4010404@nospam.org...
>>I can't handle this volume any more.
>>
>> I don't care how this newsgroup is split, but something has to be done!
> 
> A superficial split wouldn't hurt for things like announcements or whatever. 
> But I think the real "problem" is that lots of discussion is going on.  I 
> think it will die back down once ideas (and tempers) have calmed down.
> 
> If you want to help to that end, maybe you can have a poll to capture 
> people's feelings about the main issues, or something.

I think you are right, Charlie. I suspect that with more groups, you will
just get more misplaced discussions.

-- 
Derek
Melbourne, Australia
15/03/2005 10:37:01 AM
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