View mode: basic / threaded / horizontal-split · Log in · Help
April 13, 2007
Time to do a Man's Work ??
It's getting to a fortnight since Andrei last posted here.

That'd be the longest pause he ever had here.

Walter has (both presumably, and hopefully) the closest contact with 
him. Kris (and John) was instrumental in the "rise to barricades".

Now, John has already showed he's a Real Man, When It Comes Down To It.


What I'm right now expecting, is: Walter tells us Andrei's disappearance 
had nothing to do with "the incident". _Failing that_, I expect Kris to 
see to it that Andrei resumes feeling welcome here, and picks up the 
intellectual intercourse with us that was so sorely missed before 
Andrei's arrival.

----

Kris may not feel it's "his fault". Understandable. But as it seems to 
the audience, he's dead at ground zero here. A Real Man would know what 
a Real Man's Got To Do.
April 13, 2007
Re: Time to do a Man's Work ??
"Georg Wrede" <georg@nospam.org> wrote in message 
news:461FF647.6000805@nospam.org...
> It's getting to a fortnight since Andrei last posted here.
>
> That'd be the longest pause he ever had here.
>
> Walter has (both presumably, and hopefully) the closest contact with him. 
> Kris (and John) was instrumental in the "rise to barricades".
>
> Now, John has already showed he's a Real Man, When It Comes Down To It.
>
>
> What I'm right now expecting, is: Walter tells us Andrei's disappearance 
> had nothing to do with "the incident".

It might just be possible that he's recovering from Orthodox Easter. The 
whole country (Romania) seems kind-of paralyzed by the nation-wide feast 
that takes place after the fasting.

Seriously though, I too hope that Andrei will be back. I sure like reading 
his views on D. That, and the fact that I love to see my romanian colleagues 
panic when I show them another of his posts in this group. (They are C++ 
fans and regard Andrei's interest in D as treason)

And what's more, we got "ref"!

L.
April 13, 2007
Re: Time to do a Man's Work ??
Lionello Lunesu wrote:
> "Georg Wrede" <georg@nospam.org> wrote in message 
> news:461FF647.6000805@nospam.org...
>> It's getting to a fortnight since Andrei last posted here.
>>
>> That'd be the longest pause he ever had here.
>>
>> Walter has (both presumably, and hopefully) the closest contact with him. 
>> Kris (and John) was instrumental in the "rise to barricades".
>>
>> Now, John has already showed he's a Real Man, When It Comes Down To It.
>>
>>
>> What I'm right now expecting, is: Walter tells us Andrei's disappearance 
>> had nothing to do with "the incident".
> 
> It might just be possible that he's recovering from Orthodox Easter. The 
> whole country (Romania) seems kind-of paralyzed by the nation-wide feast 
> that takes place after the fasting.

He is a grad student now too.  Maybe he had to actually get back to 
doing some research work to make his advisor happy.  Maybe he's working 
hard on a paper.  A lot of submission deadlines for conferences are 
around this time of year.  And there's spring break too.  Maybe he's out 
playing with 2 many knives[1].

Or maybe he just decided to give Walter a chance to catch up. :-)


> Seriously though, I too hope that Andrei will be back. 

Me too.

> I sure like reading his views on D. That, and the fact that I love to see my romanian colleagues
> panic when I show them another of his posts in this group. (They are C++ 
> fans and regard Andrei's interest in D as treason)

Heh heh.

> And what's more, we got "ref"!

In Romania, "ref" gets YOU!  Oh nevermind...

[1] http://www.homestarrunner.com/2manyknives.html

--bb
April 14, 2007
Re: Time to do a Man's Work ??
Georg Wrede wrote

> picks up the intellectual intercourse with us that was so sorely
> missed before Andrei's arrival.

I do not believe that intellectual intercourses itself are wanted from 
the "us" you are speaking for.

Its the stardom of Andrei that is appreciated and Walters acceptance of 
Andrei which brings Andrei in the same position which once belonged to 
Matthew.

Walter once said, that he appreciates Andrei's academic rigor. But if 
anybody was lacking academic rigor there were plenty of people who 
could  put that in.

You yourself once attacked Stewart Gordon, who has a PhD, for his 
monitoring and especially indicating some of Walters not quite 
academically driven habits.

Many seem unable to recognize the group dynamics acting in here.

-manfred
April 14, 2007
Re: Time to do a Man's Work ??
Manfred Nowak wrote:
> Georg Wrede wrote
> 
>> picks up the intellectual intercourse with us that was so sorely
>> missed before Andrei's arrival.
> 
> I do not believe that intellectual intercourses itself are wanted from 
> the "us" you are speaking for.
> 
> Its the stardom of Andrei that is appreciated and Walters acceptance of 
> Andrei which brings Andrei in the same position which once belonged to 
> Matthew.

There's no doubt that Andrei's notoriety lends a certain amount of 
credibility to the D enterprise.  Rest assured that Andrei has not 
disappeared from the face of D, but he has decided to give up the 
newsgroup (or rather, he decided that when he felt it got too 
uncivilized for his tastes).  So, don't hold your breath waiting for him 
to come back.  He will continue to contribute to D, but in a less 
overtly visible manner.

> Walter once said, that he appreciates Andrei's academic rigor. But if 
> anybody was lacking academic rigor there were plenty of people who 
> could  put that in.
> 
> You yourself once attacked Stewart Gordon, who has a PhD, for his 
> monitoring and especially indicating some of Walters not quite 
> academically driven habits.
> 
> Many seem unable to recognize the group dynamics acting in here.

I'm not sure what Dr. Gordon's credentials are, and there is no doubt 
that the D community possesses many smart members.  What I think makes 
Andrei unique is that he not only has a strong academic background, but 
also strong industrial experience.  Whereas many language designers tend 
towards "pure" languages, sacrificing some practicality to achieve 
elegance, Andrei is not above getting his hands dirty and doing the 
practical thing to achieve a good result, while citing academic 
precedents for going down each path.  His experience with the C++ 
Committee, which is very much an industrial group, gives him an insider 
perspective on a large, mature language, while his academic work (which 
isn't all computer science-related) motivates his perspective as a 
language user (of many languages).  Finally, his position as a library 
and book author puts him in the position of receiving regular feedback 
from users, which I'm sure lends a wealth of perspectives.

That's not to say nobody else could or does have a similar level of 
experience, but I'm often surprised how talk of a new language feature 
leads Andrei to bring up prior work and academic papers.  He simply has 
an encyclopaedic knowledge of PL design, which is much of why Walter 
appreciates his input.  Also, unlike many pure academics, Andrei is 
interested in solving the problems of real users, rather than merely 
theoretically interesting problems.  He is especially interested in the 
problems of that special user which is himself.  This puts him in a 
different position than someone like Walter, who thinks of the language 
primarily as its designer; and I think it's a very useful balance to 
have.  Thus, Andrei blends the elegance of academic rigor with advocacy 
for the user.  He never recommends a feature that he thinks will be hard 
to use (MC++D notwithstanding).

Perhaps there is a small element of personality cult involved, and I 
think Andrei is popular partly because he is a personable and 
entertaining guy at times.  He has strong views on many topics and 
defends those views vigorously.  Most people appreciate confidence 
backed with rigor.  Of course, when people disagree, there is chance for 
conflict; and some conflicts are purely matters of personality, no 
doubt.  However, I think there are legitimate reasons for Walter to 
carefully consider Andrei's input; and if it makes you feel any better, 
I've never seen Andrei offer anybody Kool-Aid.

Dave
April 14, 2007
Re: Time to do a Man's Work ??
Manfred Nowak wrote:
> Georg Wrede wrote
> 
> 
>>picks up the intellectual intercourse with us that was so sorely
>>missed before Andrei's arrival.
> 
> I do not believe that intellectual intercourses itself are wanted from 
> the "us" you are speaking for.
> 
> Its the stardom of Andrei that is appreciated and Walters acceptance of 
> Andrei which brings Andrei in the same position which once belonged to 
> Matthew.
> 
> Walter once said, that he appreciates Andrei's academic rigor. But if 
> anybody was lacking academic rigor there were plenty of people who 
> could  put that in.

Yes, stardom is nice. Academic rigor is nice. Extensive language design 
experience is nice. Having a PhD is nice. Highly intelligent is nice. 
Ability to notice and focus on what's crucial is nice. And yes, many 
here have at least some of these attributes.
April 14, 2007
Re: Time to do a Man's Work ??
I should add that Andrei is just plain a pleasure to work with.
April 14, 2007
Re: Time to do a Man's Work ??
Georg Wrede wrote:
> Yes, stardom is nice. Academic rigor is nice. Extensive language design 
> experience is nice. Having a PhD is nice. Highly intelligent is nice. 
> Ability to notice and focus on what's crucial is nice. And yes, many 
> here have at least some of these attributes.

True, but there's another factor as well - the ability to work with 
people face to face. That's why we're having the D conference in August. 
I hope to be able to meet as many of you as possible then.
April 14, 2007
Re: Time to do a Man's Work ??
David B. Held wrote:
> Rest assured that Andrei has not disappeared from the face of D,

Excellent!!!

> but he has decided to give up the newsgroup (or rather, he decided
> that when he felt it got too uncivilized for his tastes).

Appalling.

Too many of the discussions people entangled him in here were of such 
low quality that for Andrei, it was a total waste of time. Unless we 
here can improve substantially, there's no gain for him in coming back. 
Nor for the likes of him.

This is the first time I'm happy I've spent some years on the street in 
bad company. Makes me less uneasy with some inevitable phenomenons in 
life. (But the cost in health, time, and missed opportunities was quite 
high.) Or with picking up a fight when one's needed.

So, we've now demonstrated that we don't deserve the company of people 
head and shoulders taller than us.
April 14, 2007
Re: Time to do a Man's Work ??
Georg Wrede wrote:

>> but he has decided to give up the newsgroup (or rather, he decided
>> that when he felt it got too uncivilized for his tastes).
> 
> Appalling.
> 
> Too many of the discussions people entangled him in here were of such
> low quality that for Andrei, it was a total waste of time. Unless we
> here can improve substantially, there's no gain for him in coming back.
> Nor for the likes of him.

If one cannot discuss things with the one who brought it up (which was
Andrei in the situation you're talking about), then I would see no reason
in having discussions here at all, and especially when the one you think is
at fault here ended up with defending allegations toward a project he has
spent considerable time on. Kris has himself stayed away from this
newsgroup since then due to the waste of time that these discussions were
(although one could find some technical enlightenment if one filtered out
the rest).

Personally I have never been the one spending too much time discussing
technicalities, but I certainly will spend even less time now. I don't feel
like sucking up allegations to the work of me and my teammates however, and
will continue to try and pick up Tango subjects in the newsgroups,
hopefully without being pulled forth to do a mans work.

There are other things in this world to feel strongly about.

---
To my home town, and those who lost their loved ones in the Bourbon Dolphin
capside, my deepest condolances.
--- 
Lars Ivar Igesund
blog at http://larsivi.net
DSource, #d.tango & #D: larsivi
Dancing the Tango
« First   ‹ Prev
1 2 3 4
Top | Discussion index | About this forum | D home