On Monday, 8 September 2014 at 09:40:29 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote:
> On Mon, 08 Sep 2014 08:51:09 +0000
> via Digitalmars-d <digitalmars-d@puremagic.com> wrote:
>
>> in :  #arr;
>> out:  arr.length //or perhaps something more generic?
> why not '$arr'? '$' is already established for 'length'.

Primarily because '$x' is usually used for variables in other languages and I am already familiar with '#' for length (e.g. perl), but it would be easy to change. Though I expect to add 'arr[#-1]' as an option.

On Monday, 8 September 2014 at 09:41:42 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote:
> On Mon, 8 Sep 2014 19:37:22 +1000
> Daniel Murphy via Digitalmars-d <digitalmars-d@puremagic.com> wrote:
>
>> Attempting to fork D's syntax is harmful to D.  Please stop.
> it's easy: just close the code. this will effectively stop people who
> want to experiment.

It is funny how people one day tell you to create proofs-of-concept in order stifle arguments for change, then the next day when you create proofs-of-concept you are treated as a traitor…

Anyway, stifling creativity is never a good idea. If D's syntax is great then this is obviously no threat to it. This is in the spirit of open source, if people don't like it: don't open source your code base.

On Monday, 8 September 2014 at 09:38:54 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote:
> parser:
> * foreach (auto n; ...)
> * foreach (auto; ...)
> * foreach (; ...)
> * lambdas: (auto, auto) => ...
> * @pure, @nothrow
> * safe, trusted (w/o '@')
> * "kill-the-commas"
> * "kill-c-arrays"
> * @virtual (yes, i remember the discussion, but i NEED a way to revert
>   "final:"!) semiworking
> * @nonstatic (for the same reason as @virtual) semiworking
> * planing: @gc and @throw (for the same reason again)
> * ...and maybe generic [@]!... (!final, !static, @!nogc and so on)

Thank you for this list, finally someone made an on-topic response! Please keep me (and others with the same interest) oriented in this thread about other changes you are making when you get to look at other aspects of the language. I'll use your "kill-*" patches and more, for sure!

> now i'm trying to dive into semantic parts of the compiler to increase area of wreckage.

;-)

On Monday, 8 September 2014 at 13:36:37 UTC, Ola Fosheim Grøstad wrote:
>>> Attempting to fork D's syntax is harmful to D.  Please stop.
>> it's easy: just close the code. this will effectively stop people who
>> want to experiment.
>
> It is funny how people one day tell you to create proofs-of-concept in order stifle arguments for change, then the next day when you create proofs-of-concept you are treated as a traitor…

With many freedoms come many responsibilities. The fact that you can fork the syntax and no one sue you for it (or actively try to stop you from doing it) does not mean that it won't harm your public image and overall attitude from some of community members. I think http://xkcd.com/1357/ fits the spirit here quite nicely.

On Mon, 8 Sep 2014 12:41:32 +0300
ketmar via Digitalmars-d <digitalmars-d@puremagic.com> wrote:

> > Attempting to fork D's syntax is harmful to D.  Please stop.
> it's easy: just close the code. this will effectively stop people who want to experiment.
or, without closing: just write it all in spaghetti-code that nobody is able to understand anymore. autogenerate, obfuscate, etc. such code is still technically "open", but has perfect protection from forking and changing.

On Mon, 08 Sep 2014 13:33:09 +0000
via Digitalmars-d <digitalmars-d@puremagic.com> wrote:

> Primarily because '$x' is usually used for variables in other languages
that's great! confusing people is fun.

On Mon, 08 Sep 2014 13:40:46 +0000
via Digitalmars-d <digitalmars-d@puremagic.com> wrote:

fun fact: "kill-the-commas" is a play on old demo titled "kill the clone". i don't even remember what effects was in this demo, but i still remember the name.

On Monday, 8 September 2014 at 14:09:15 UTC, Dicebot wrote:
> With many freedoms come many responsibilities. The fact that you can fork the syntax and no one sue you for it (or actively try to stop you from doing it) does not mean that it won't harm your public image and overall attitude from some of community members

I think the D community manages to harm it's own public image by not encouraging evolution and aiming for the insular cult image and group think.

If you pick Boost as a license you open up for commercial closed source use, maybe even encourage it. If you don't want someone to evolve the language and tailor it to their own ends, then pick a different license.

Forking a project only harms it if you create totally incompatible spheres and split the current team of developers.

We add to the eco system. We don't detract from it.

I'm sorry, but I don't believe in design by democracy. It has never lead to anything great. I do believe in evolution. D needs evolution.

> I think http://xkcd.com/1357/ fits the spirit here quite nicely.

I've never liked xkcd much and comics are not on topic, so I can't be bothered to look at it unless you made it yourself.

On Monday, 8 September 2014 at 14:21:01 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote:
> On Mon, 08 Sep 2014 13:33:09 +0000
> via Digitalmars-d <digitalmars-d@puremagic.com> wrote:
>
>> Primarily because '$x' is usually used for variables in other languages
> that's great! confusing people is fun.

Yeah! Confusing OTHER people is fun. I plan to use $ for something else, though... (And I try to avoid confusing myself!)

:-]

On Monday, 8 September 2014 at 14:58:01 UTC, Ola Fosheim Grøstad wrote:
> On Monday, 8 September 2014 at 14:09:15 UTC, Dicebot wrote:
>> With many freedoms come many responsibilities. The fact that you can fork the syntax and no one sue you for it (or actively try to stop you from doing it) does not mean that it won't harm your public image and overall attitude from some of community members
>
> I think the D community manages to harm it's own public image by not encouraging evolution and aiming for the insular cult image and group think.
>
> If you pick Boost as a license you open up for commercial closed source use, maybe even encourage it. If you don't want someone to evolve the language and tailor it to their own ends, then pick a different license.

It is not about D community but about yourself. Do _you_ want to be viewed as a valuable member of community? Do _you_ want to receive on topic responses to your threads? If answer is yes, you will consider people expectation as much as a license. If answer is no, well, just tell that and I will stop paying attention to your posts in NG saving time us both.

> Forking a project only harms it if you create totally incompatible spheres and split the current team of developers.
>
> We add to the eco system. We don't detract from it.

Bullshit. Any kind of forking wastes most valuable resource open source world can possibly have - developer attention. In limited form it is compensated by ecnouraged competition and breaking possible stagantion. When it becomes casual it is a single biggest killer of all open source projects.