December 09, 2012
Why can't a struct inside a class access the members of that class without a this pointer? It would seem natural to me that a nested struct should probably be special in that it is really just a special container to reduce clutter in the class.

class a {
   string v;
   struct b { void fun() { writeln(v); } }
   b bb;
}

should be semantically equivalent to

class a {
   string v;
   void bb.fun() { writeln(v); }
}

(and struct b does not have to include a "this" pointer since it is passed down)

I'm in need of using structs to wrap opAssign so I can override for each variable(instead of a special method for each field in the class, which adds clutter and prevents using `=` properly). But I also want to access the class container's members. (and without having to enlarge the struct)

It seems to me that the compiler should not have any difficult treating a struct method as a class method(passing the this ptr to it) but operating on struct's data.

What's the difference between

class a {
   int x;
}

and

class a {
   struct b { alias _x this; int _x; }
   b x;
}

? (and if be is made to be used inside the class only then it seems as if it's just basically no different than using the class alone except for some simplification(has it's own op's that one unfortunately can't keep distinct from the class align since they would overlap(although it would be nice).

e.g.,


class a {
   string Name;
   void opAssign(T q) { };      // classes opAssign

   //{{ Essentially a struct here
     int x;
     void opAssign_x(T q) { writeln(Name); };   // Somehow overrides = for x. ('structs' opAssign)
   //}}
}

and

class a {
   string Name;
   void opAssign(T q) { };
   struct b { alias _x this; int _x; void opAssign(T q) { writeln(Name); }; } // Unfortunately we can't access Name
   b x;
}

i.e., it would seem to me that the only difference in the method opAssign of the struct is the offsets of the member variables is different(one referenced to the start of the struct and the first references them to start of the class.

Therefor we shouldn't have any issues having properties from both the *true* nested struct and directly inlining it. i.e., we should be able to access outer members(the functionality when we inline the struct into the class) AND have multiple opAssign's(or any ops) per class that can be specified for any field(which is the functionality we get when we use the struct).

Essentially what it boils down to is that nested structs do contain a this pointer to the parent class, so why can't we use it? (it's just some offset difference between the struct and class)

I do realize that nested structs are not special in the current implementation AFAIK which to me, is a waste as they should be special. In any case, is there some other way to get the same behavior in D?

One might say why don't I use classes as it solves the problem directly BUT there is a ton of wasted overhead for simply wrapping values.

I would use template mixin's but the opAssigns would clash AFAIK. The struct encapsulation lets me get the correct opAssign behavior which is what I need but prevent me from accessing the outer class members which I should be able to do.








December 09, 2012
On Sunday, December 09, 2012 07:54:25 js.mdnq wrote:
> Why can't a struct inside a class access the members of that class without a this pointer? It would seem natural to me that a nested struct should probably be special in that it is really just a special container to reduce clutter in the class.

Without a this pointer, there are no class members to access, because they have to be associated with a specific instance of the class unless they're static. Non-static, nested structs have access to their enclosing scope, but then you can't create them separate from the enclosing class. However, if you declare a nested class to be static, it has no access to the class' members and is not associated with a specific instance of the class. It's just that it's declared inside the class instead of outside of it.

- Jonathan M Davis
December 09, 2012
On Sunday, 9 December 2012 at 07:24:57 UTC, Jonathan M Davis wrote:
> On Sunday, December 09, 2012 07:54:25 js.mdnq wrote:
>> Why can't a struct inside a class access the members of that
>> class without a this pointer? It would seem natural to me that a
>> nested struct should probably be special in that it is really
>> just a special container to reduce clutter in the class.
>
> Without a this pointer, there are no class members to access, because they
> have to be associated with a specific instance of the class unless they're
> static. Non-static, nested structs have access to their enclosing scope, but
> then you can't create them separate from the enclosing class. However, if you
> declare a nested class to be static, it has no access to the class' members
> and is not associated with a specific instance of the class. It's just that
> it's declared inside the class instead of outside of it.
>
> - Jonathan M Davis

NOOOOOOOOO!!!! It does have a this pointer!! If the sub-struct is a true sub struct then it is inline inside the memory of the class! That is, any member inside a struct can easily be gotten from the pointer to the class(object) as one just has to add a simple(and static) offset.

If the struct is only used inside the class then there should be no problem.

If you look at the two examples I gave between a class and a struct inside a class, there is NO difference except for syntax! (excluding the way D does it already).

I'm not trying to define how D does it, but how D should do it(assuming there is no blatant logic errors that makes it impossible).

It makes no sense to have a struct inside a class behave exactly as that outside as it offers no benefit to do so(or maybe it does, but very little). Hence, we can redefine the way structs behave inside classes to make them more useful.

In fact, maybe a struct is not the best way to do this but it requires very little modification.

In any case, take this example:

class A {
public:
    string Name;
    struct B { public: int x; alias x this; void func(A _a) { writeln(_a.Name, x, y); }}
    B x;
    B y;
}

...

A a;

What is the address of A?

What is the address of x inside A? (i.e., the struct inside A?)

Is it not a simple static offset from the address of A? i.e., knowing the address of a lets us know the address of x. Knowing the address of x also lets us know the address of a! (Same goes for y)

This is why a nested struct(using my semantics) contains the this pointer! (because it is a simple offset from the this pointer which can be computed at compile time)!

NOW!! In this case, a nested struct is simply making an encapsulation of class data but effectively is equivalent to having the data inside the class. (but allows us to avoid collisions between overrides in the class and the struct, which is why I think it will be more useful to have such behavior than the current(since the current seems to offer nothing useful).



(










December 09, 2012
>
> ...
>
> A a;
>
> What is the address of A?
>
> What is the address of x inside A? (i.e., the struct inside A?)
>

I of course, mean a, which is why it's nice to have the ability to make an edit so I don't have to waste a post and/or someone else bloat the thread with "A is a class, not an object, go learn how to program!".

December 09, 2012
On Sunday, 9 December 2012 at 07:39:29 UTC, js.mdnq wrote:
> On Sunday, 9 December 2012 at 07:24:57 UTC, Jonathan M Davis wrote:
>> On Sunday, December 09, 2012 07:54:25 js.mdnq wrote:
>>> Why can't a struct inside a class access the members of that
>>> class without a this pointer? It would seem natural to me that a
>>> nested struct should probably be special in that it is really
>>> just a special container to reduce clutter in the class.
>>
>> Without a this pointer, there are no class members to access, because they
>> have to be associated with a specific instance of the class unless they're
>> static. Non-static, nested structs have access to their enclosing scope, but
>> then you can't create them separate from the enclosing class. However, if you
>> declare a nested class to be static, it has no access to the class' members
>> and is not associated with a specific instance of the class. It's just that
>> it's declared inside the class instead of outside of it.
>>
>> - Jonathan M Davis
>
> NOOOOOOOOO!!!! It does have a this pointer!! If the sub-struct is a true sub struct then it is inline inside the memory of the class! That is, any member inside a struct can easily be gotten from the pointer to the class(object) as one just has to add a simple(and static) offset.

That is why nested struct inside a class actually does not have a context pointer -its fields addresses are calculated as offsets from class this pointer, not from struct this pointer.

> If the struct is only used inside the class then there should be no problem.

Problems comes when nested struct is created inside a function without creating a class.

> It makes no sense to have a struct inside a class behave exactly as that outside as it offers no benefit to do so(or maybe it does, but very little). Hence, we can redefine the way structs behave inside classes to make them more useful.

Perhaps the situation can be improved.

> In any case, take this example:
>
> class A {
> public:
>     string Name;
>     struct B { public: int x; alias x this; void func(A _a) { writeln(_a.Name, x, y); }}
>     B x;
>     B y;
> }
>
> ...
>
> A a;
>
> What is the address of A?

Meaning a, it is null.

> What is the address of x inside A? (i.e., the struct inside A?)

x does not exists

> Is it not a simple static offset from the address of A? i.e., knowing the address of a lets us know the address of x. Knowing the address of x also lets us know the address of a! (Same goes for y)

Yes, it is a CT-known offset which varies from one class to another. Note, you can insert nested struct into another class.

> This is why a nested struct(using my semantics) contains the this pointer! (because it is a simple offset from the this pointer which can be computed at compile time)!

That's why nested struct does not have this pointer - it is POD structure.

http://dpaste.dzfl.pl/76e8ec0a
December 09, 2012
On Sunday, 9 December 2012 at 06:54:33 UTC, js.mdnq wrote:
> Why can't a struct inside a class access the members of that class without a this pointer? It would seem natural to me that a nested struct should probably be special in that it is really just a special container to reduce clutter in the class.

Your problem have obvious and simple workaround http://dpaste.dzfl.pl/701affe8
December 09, 2012
On Sunday, 9 December 2012 at 08:56:00 UTC, Maxim Fomin wrote:
> On Sunday, 9 December 2012 at 07:39:29 UTC, js.mdnq wrote:
>> On Sunday, 9 December 2012 at 07:24:57 UTC, Jonathan M Davis wrote:
>>> On Sunday, December 09, 2012 07:54:25 js.mdnq wrote:
>>>> Why can't a struct inside a class access the members of that
>>>> class without a this pointer? It would seem natural to me that a
>>>> nested struct should probably be special in that it is really
>>>> just a special container to reduce clutter in the class.
>>>
>>> Without a this pointer, there are no class members to access, because they
>>> have to be associated with a specific instance of the class unless they're
>>> static. Non-static, nested structs have access to their enclosing scope, but
>>> then you can't create them separate from the enclosing class. However, if you
>>> declare a nested class to be static, it has no access to the class' members
>>> and is not associated with a specific instance of the class. It's just that
>>> it's declared inside the class instead of outside of it.
>>>
>>> - Jonathan M Davis
>>
>> NOOOOOOOOO!!!! It does have a this pointer!! If the sub-struct is a true sub struct then it is inline inside the memory of the class! That is, any member inside a struct can easily be gotten from the pointer to the class(object) as one just has to add a simple(and static) offset.
>
> That is why nested struct inside a class actually does not have a context pointer -its fields addresses are calculated as offsets from class this pointer, not from struct this pointer.
>
>> If the struct is only used inside the class then there should be no problem.
>
> Problems comes when nested struct is created inside a function without creating a class.
>
>> It makes no sense to have a struct inside a class behave exactly as that outside as it offers no benefit to do so(or maybe it does, but very little). Hence, we can redefine the way structs behave inside classes to make them more useful.
>
> Perhaps the situation can be improved.
>
>> In any case, take this example:
>>
>> class A {
>> public:
>>    string Name;
>>    struct B { public: int x; alias x this; void func(A _a) { writeln(_a.Name, x, y); }}
>>    B x;
>>    B y;
>> }
>>
>> ...
>>
>> A a;
>>
>> What is the address of A?
>
> Meaning a, it is null.
>
>> What is the address of x inside A? (i.e., the struct inside A?)
>
> x does not exists
>
>> Is it not a simple static offset from the address of A? i.e., knowing the address of a lets us know the address of x. Knowing the address of x also lets us know the address of a! (Same goes for y)
>
> Yes, it is a CT-known offset which varies from one class to another. Note, you can insert nested struct into another class.
>
>> This is why a nested struct(using my semantics) contains the this pointer! (because it is a simple offset from the this pointer which can be computed at compile time)!
>
> That's why nested struct does not have this pointer - it is POD structure.
>
> http://dpaste.dzfl.pl/76e8ec0a

Yes, this is basically what I mean. structs to have addresses as everything does in memory. But structs are created "inline". I do not know what you mean x does not exist and the address of a. x does exist(in the sense of any other variable) and a does have an address.


You say

> That is why nested struct inside a class actually does not have a context pointer -its fields addresses are calculated as offsets from class this pointer, not from struct this pointer.

But if this is true, and a difference between nested structs, then there should be no issue implementing what I am talking about.

What I am talking about would require the struct to only be used inside the class as a class field. (as the struct is just encapsulating members of the class and not meant to stand on it's own, because, as you said, it would need a this pointer associated with it)

With my method, I should easily be able calculate, from a relative offset, the members of the class and use them. This means that the compiler should be able to do it for me. It then means that nested structs are not just structs stuck in a class for who knows what reason but actually signify that they are specially related to the class.

e.g.,

class A {
public:
	string Name;
	struct B {
		int x;
		void func(ref A tthis, int ofs)
		{
			byte *ptr = cast(byte*)tthis;
			ptr += ofs;
			writeln(*(cast(string*)(ptr)));		
		}

		this(int y) { x = y; }

	}
	B b;
	
	this() { Name = "test"; b = B(3); }
}


	A a = new A();
	a.b.func(a, 8);


prints "test" as expected.

B.func acts just like a member of A in that it takes a this pointer just like any other member of A. It could be moved outside of the struct into A.

Semantically there is little difference between using func inside B or inside A EXCEPT that we have to provide the static offsets and this ptr manually. If the compiler did it for us we would could then use the struct as a way to provide encapsulation for types inside the class so each could have it's own unique set of overloads(as they won't then conflict with the class overloads).

This is the whole point. Obviously, a nested struct inside a class has the ability to access it's class members(or, rather, it's parents members) simply by "moving" all it's methods into the class(but we see still think they are in the struct).

e.g., the above class has the exact same internal functionality as this:

class A {
public:
	string Name;
	struct B {
		int x;
		this(int y) { x = y; }
	}
	B b;
	void func()
	{
	        writeln(Name);		
	}
	
	this() { Name = "test"; b = B(3); }
}

(of course, we might have collisions now and we also have to call func through A instead of B but we get the benefit of not having to hard code the offset).



December 09, 2012
On Sunday, 9 December 2012 at 09:06:28 UTC, Maxim Fomin wrote:
> On Sunday, 9 December 2012 at 06:54:33 UTC, js.mdnq wrote:
>> Why can't a struct inside a class access the members of that class without a this pointer? It would seem natural to me that a nested struct should probably be special in that it is really just a special container to reduce clutter in the class.
>
> Your problem have obvious and simple workaround http://dpaste.dzfl.pl/701affe8


Nope, sorry, as I said, I do not want to keep 4 to 8 bytes FOR NO REASON! It doesn't have to be done that way and it is not a work around. It is simply a waste of space.
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