April 10
On Wednesday, 5 April 2017 at 16:57:40 UTC, Simon Timothy wrote:
> On Thursday, 9 March 2017 at 21:42:05 UTC, singingbush wrote:
>> On Wednesday, 8 February 2017 at 15:55:09 UTC, Jerry wrote:
>>> There was also someone who was working on an Intellij plugin for D but it doesn't seem like they are working on it that much anymore. https://github.com/kingsleyh/DLanguage
>>
>> There's a new build (v1.11) for the Intellij D Language plugin:
>>
>> https://github.com/kingsleyh/DLanguage/releases
>>
>> which should be in the plugin repo soon:
>>
>> https://plugins.jetbrains.com/plugin/8115-d-language?pr=idea
>
> Seeing how JetBrains now created an IDE for Go ultimately shows how D failed. D is much older. Anyway, there is no official support built into any JetBrains product (and they support almost everything, or at least build tools to enhance other IDEs).
> Quite sad.
>
> And now give anybody a reason to learn D. When you instead could use C#, Java, Go - all of them being supported very well by great IDEs...

Is it possible to create a feature request (and vote for it) concerning official D language support (in order to ask development team to start "DLion" in a couple of years)? I haven't found any topics related to dlang here
https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/

April 11
On Monday, 10 April 2017 at 17:42:26 UTC, Eliatto wrote:
> Is it possible to create a feature request (and vote for it) concerning official D language support (in order to ask development team to start "DLion" in a couple of years)? I haven't found any topics related to dlang here
> https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/

They won't do it, because it is not commercially viable for them.
April 21
On Monday, 10 April 2017 at 17:42:26 UTC, Eliatto wrote:
> On Wednesday, 5 April 2017 at 16:57:40 UTC, Simon Timothy wrote:
>> [...]
>
> Is it possible to create a feature request (and vote for it) concerning official D language support (in order to ask development team to start "DLion" in a couple of years)? I haven't found any topics related to dlang here
> https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/

Should be called DRagon imho :)
August 06
Hi, I have also been a long time lurker of the D language. D itself is very fine. I come from C# background for the most part, while having worked in other C-based languages like Java and C. I also used Visual Studio for years.

A couple of months ago, I tried setting up an IDE.
VisualD, MonoD, This thing with IntelliJ, and VSCode plugins - none of them worked out of the box.

The way I tried to install it is like a normal user. I would try installation while following the steps and if it doesn't work I quit. Yes, I could probably troubleshoot the installation but that's the core problem: if the installation is broken you will simply lose the confidence in the product as a person evaluating the product. While the OSS community "likes" these kinds of installations, they are a death for the interest of general public.

As someone coming into D from the outside, I cannot state how big of a problem this is for user adoption. Go is the proof that language is not sold by its features, it is sold by the perception for the users. What's more important than being good is making a good impression and that is basics of sales.

Also, you may think that a good IDE is not important. Let's put it this way, from an a lazy user point of view, if we wanted to skimp on productivity, why use a high-level language after all? Having a language in the family of C++/C#/Java without the good tooling support is ludicrous. If the code completion does not work, forget it. People spend enough time troubleshooting their own software. Imagine a compiler that works 100%, but only 90% of the time. This simply does not cut it. The relationship of the language and the tooling is very symbiotic. Even in C#, you know how in LINQ you type 'from' before 'select' even though you'd expect it to be the other way around? Well, one of the reasons is so they could offer better tooling support this way, and that's an example of how the language can be influenced by the IDE. At the end of the day, it all comes down to workflows. Either we are doing stuff (such as debugging) faster and better or we are not.

This is the Really important stuff, the end-to-end thinking which gets the job done and never focuses on the details at the expense of something more important down the pipeline.

I believe D can be a popular language, and it can build on the C++ popularity, but it needs to have really reliable tooling. In C#, language features and VS features go hand in hand. A language service for an IDE needs to work extremely reliably, just like any system.
August 08
On Sunday, 6 August 2017 at 12:12:01 UTC, Gru wrote:
> I believe D can be a popular language, and it can build on the C++ popularity, but it needs to have really reliable tooling. In C#, language features and VS features go hand in hand. A language service for an IDE needs to work extremely reliably, just like any system.

I agree with you. I think that community members should choose one IDE by voting and donate money to IDE developers. For example, we will choose winner in 2017 among existing crossplatform solutions (aka IDE of the year). Then we will donate to the team for some period. The most wanted feature is a refactoring server (IMHO), which can be shared among different IDEs.
August 17
On Tuesday, 14 March 2017 at 04:27:28 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:
> On Tuesday, 14 March 2017 at 01:32:30 UTC, Sergey Orlov wrote:
>
>> Just would like to ask where people write code?
>
> With Java, I can't get by without an IDE anymore, but with D I just don't need one. I feel they actually get in my way. Sublime Text and Visual Studio Code do just fine.

Amen.

I feel like IDE's like IntelliJ or Visual Studio allow the programmer to write programs TOO conveniently, besides them being quite overblown. In a lot of cases, you can autocomplete your way through the API, and end up with a large piece of source code that you don't understand, because you didn't write it. Your IDE did. I use atom with syntax highlighting and a terminal. Dub has a very nice and concise CLI that makes it really convenient to use, and it does everything I need and then some for a build system. Work is going on to get better autocomplete and inline error checking for atom, but even that makes me a tiny bit nervous about code quality. In general, I don't believe in using these huge tools because they turn an engineer into an end-user.

There is a really good lecture that was given at DConf 2017 by Scott Meyers. I recommend you listen to the whole thing, but he has a section on tooling, which begins at 25:15 in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RT46MpK39rQ
That addresses concerns about C++ mainly, but also shines some light on places where D excels and where it doesn't.
August 18
On Thursday, 17 August 2017 at 23:49:54 UTC, SamwiseFilmore wrote:
> On Tuesday, 14 March 2017 at 04:27:28 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:
>> On Tuesday, 14 March 2017 at 01:32:30 UTC, Sergey Orlov wrote:
>>
>>> Just would like to ask where people write code?
>>
>> With Java, I can't get by without an IDE anymore, but with D I just don't need one. I feel they actually get in my way. Sublime Text and Visual Studio Code do just fine.
>
> Amen.
>
> I feel like IDE's like IntelliJ or Visual Studio allow the programmer to write programs TOO conveniently, besides them being quite overblown. In a lot of cases, you can autocomplete your way through the API, and end up with a large piece of source code that you don't understand, because you didn't write it. Your IDE did. I use atom with syntax highlighting and a terminal. Dub has a very nice and concise CLI that makes it really convenient to use, and it does everything I need and then some for a build system. Work is going on to get better autocomplete and inline error checking for atom, but even that makes me a tiny bit nervous about code quality. In general, I don't believe in using these huge tools because they turn an engineer into an end-user.
>
> There is a really good lecture that was given at DConf 2017 by Scott Meyers. I recommend you listen to the whole thing, but he has a section on tooling, which begins at 25:15 in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RT46MpK39rQ
> That addresses concerns about C++ mainly, but also shines some light on places where D excels and where it doesn't.

The talk mentioned is neither pro-tooling not counter-tooling. In fact, the takeaway can be "make your language easily tool-able so you don't have to write complex tools yourself".

I simply cannot agree with a point above. Because you have autocomplete does not mean you don't understand the API. I don't even know how would you ever write code without understanding the API.
My take is those archaic tools turn a programmer into a typist. If anyone is using a CLI or vim or whatever does not make him any better then someone using a GUI and an IDE.
Focusing on tiring ceremony does not make one a better engineer. We are always working with software layers, and so we are end users of something. The best decision is working on the layer that is most appropriate. Sometimes it's low-level, sometimes it's high level.

August 25
On Sunday, 6 August 2017 at 12:12:01 UTC, Gru wrote:
> In C#, language features and VS features go hand in hand. A language service for an IDE needs to work extremely reliably, just like any system.

When I open C++ project in visual studio, C++ language service crashes regularly for me. In C# projects intellisense often disappears too, probably crashes too, but silenced and becomes non-functional.
August 26
On Friday, 25 August 2017 at 13:09:16 UTC, Kagamin wrote:
> On Sunday, 6 August 2017 at 12:12:01 UTC, Gru wrote:
>> In C#, language features and VS features go hand in hand. A language service for an IDE needs to work extremely reliably, just like any system.

The IDE i used for D is often opened during the whole daytime, even sometimes several days. It's reliable and never crashes.
August 31
On Friday, 17 February 2017 at 09:21:10 UTC, Kagamin wrote:
> On Thursday, 16 February 2017 at 18:04:43 UTC, SC wrote:
>> D lang exist for more than a decade and it still haven't got a proper IDE with decent debugging support
>
> Try Visual D.

^

Currently my weapon of choice. Best IDE at the moment. Breakpoints are buggy with DMD for me, but work perfectly with LDC.


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