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January 24, 2004
Ant wrote:

> you are wrong of course. ;)

I wouldn't say someone on this discussion was clearly wrong.

> if it's you preferred it's not freaky.
> and you want it to be the same at home,
> at work, in your palm, in your rist computer(limitation may apply),
> in a public computer...

Hmmm... This is a point of view of a UNIX user, where all the same problem has always been: all standard UNIX command-line utilities have a different and unrelated interface. Nontheless, this has never been considered a problem. Although i must say i hate it, it just takes so much more time to learn. My reason #1 to have as little to do with Unix as possible.

Now, in the UI aera it has not become different. The OS doesn't have its own mean of providing a look and feel of the application. Instead, each application *must* draw itself by its own means, be it even sometimes a more-or-less popular library such as GTK+.

Having look and feel like the platform, and work the same on all platforms, is not a conflicting target. Just look at any wxWindows application.

> and not everybody will use the same look and feel for the
> same application.

This is good, but on the level of an operating system or an OS addon.

> but that's not here yet. give it another 3 ot 5 years.
> (hmmm.. i've said that before)

Ouch.

-eye

January 25, 2004
Antti Sykäri wrote:

[...]
> Anyway, thanks for the link, it
> looks like a nice toolkit. I had never heard about it before!

Try a look at http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/7184/guitool.html, [cited 25.01.04]

So long.
-- 
Fight Spam! Join EuroCAUCE: http://www.euro.cauce.org/ 2EA56D6D4DC41ABA311615946D3248A1
January 25, 2004
Matthew wrote:

>"J Anderson" <REMOVEanderson@badmama.com.au> wrote in message
>news:butevk$qqj$2@digitaldaemon.com...
>  
>
>>Matthew wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>"Ant" <Ant_member@pathlink.com> wrote in message
>>>news:buh34c$2168$1@digitaldaemon.com...
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>In article <bucjga$q2n$1@digitaldaemon.com>, John Reimer says...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>>can we just create the entire class hierarchy,
>>>>>>using swig. then we just "fill in the blanks".
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>You sure can try!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>Couldn't even get to first base...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>That's the new port for all platforms that implements it's own widget
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>sets
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>>instead of calling OS dependent ones.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>Interesting (roughly and roughly chronological):
>>>>java AWT - use only common native widgets
>>>>java swing - don't use native widget, implements "full" set of widgets
>>>>eclise SWT - use native widgets where possible, implement others
>>>>wxWindows - use native widgets
>>>>wxWindowsUniversal - don't use native widgets.
>>>>
>>>>Seems people still doesn't know what's more important,
>>>>give the user a consistent look and feel on a specific platform or
>>>>give the same application the same look and feel accross different
>>>>platforms.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>Isn't it obvious?
>>>
>>>Users want the same look and feel on a single platform. Developers want
>>>      
>>>
>the
>  
>
>>>same look and feel for a single app between different platforms.
>>>
>>>Which one's going to result in the most successful software?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>Personally I prefer the same look of an app on all platforms. But then
>>again I am an openGL/game fan.
>>    
>>
>
>And you're a developer. Like the rest of us, your opinion of what is an
>important consistency is largely irrelevant, because most users are not
>developers. This is a classic mistake of "informed" choices by developers
>and power-user managers who fail to grasp the commercial realities. If we
>want D to "win", then it has to have a UI that equals or betters that
>provided by competing languages, which basically means it must be at least
>as good in look and feel as .NET. ;/
>
>
>  
>
Well I wasn't talking from my developer side.

Winamp looks the same on all OSs (it's skinned).  HTML looks the same on all OSs.  Warcraft 3 looks the same on all OSs.  I like it that way and I didn't develop those apps.   For many applications a common interface is better.  Now if someone is just going to stick with the *ugly* OS interfaces, then use their clients. But if their going to make a good-looking-skinnable type one, then use that.

-- 
-Anderson: http://badmama.com.au/~anderson/
January 25, 2004
In article <butevk$qqj$2@digitaldaemon.com>, J Anderson says...

>Personally I prefer the same look of an app on all platforms. But then again I am an openGL/game fan.

It's okay for a game to look the same on all platforms. Game users are used to games not looking native. Actually they kind of expect it. And it's good for the game to look the same on all platforms.

Office workers, and "adults" in general, want every program to look native. They don't want to deal with differences in functionality or even the look of things between apps.


January 25, 2004
Georg Wrede wrote:

>In article <butevk$qqj$2@digitaldaemon.com>, J Anderson says...
>
>  
>
>>Personally I prefer the same look of an app on all platforms. But then again I am an openGL/game fan.
>>    
>>
>
>It's okay for a game to look the same on all platforms. Game users
>are used to games not looking native. Actually they kind of expect
>it. And it's good for the game to look the same on all platforms.
>
>Office workers, and "adults" in general, want every program to look
>native. They don't want to deal with differences in functionality
>or even the look of things between apps.
>
>
>  
>
That's my point. It's not the same in all fields.

-- 
-Anderson: http://badmama.com.au/~anderson/
January 28, 2004
"J Anderson" <REMOVEanderson@badmama.com.au> wrote in message news:bv0c3e$26t3$1@digitaldaemon.com...
> Georg Wrede wrote:
>
> >In article <butevk$qqj$2@digitaldaemon.com>, J Anderson says...
> >
> >
> >
> >>Personally I prefer the same look of an app on all platforms. But then again I am an openGL/game fan.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >It's okay for a game to look the same on all platforms. Game users are used to games not looking native. Actually they kind of expect it. And it's good for the game to look the same on all platforms.
> >
> >Office workers, and "adults" in general, want every program to look native. They don't want to deal with differences in functionality or even the look of things between apps.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> That's my point. It's not the same in all fields.

No-one's saying it is. The point I'm making is that people like you and I are the minority, and "ordinary" users are the massive majority. Hence, D needs UI support that satisfy these people, not us.






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