Walter

I get your tab scheme - Vim's softtabs / smarttabs - but it's just a PITA when viewed with any other tools whose default tabs are not 8, or which have been set to another tab setting.

Is there a good reason why you (and anyone writing for Phobos) can't change to
just spaces only?

"The Dr ... who?" <thedr@who.com> wrote in message news:cagnmh$1md2$1@digitaldaemon.com...
> I get your tab scheme - Vim's softtabs / smarttabs - but it's just a PITA
when
> viewed with any other tools whose default tabs are not 8, or which have
been set
> to another tab setting.

Printers, the linux command prompt, the windows command prompt, the DOS command prompt, the RT-11 command prompt, TOPS-10 command prompt, every TTY I've used from ASR-33 to VT-100, html browsers, etc., all have tab stops at 8. Programs that default to anything other than 8 should be abandoned. Programs that allow tab stops to be customized should be flogged.

> Is there a good reason why you (and anyone writing for Phobos) can't
change to
> just spaces only?

Habit <g>.

In article <cagnmh$1md2$1@digitaldaemon.com>, The Dr ... who? says...
>
>Walter
>
>I get your tab scheme - Vim's softtabs / smarttabs - but it's just a PITA when viewed with any other tools whose default tabs are not 8, or which have been set to another tab setting.
>
>Is there a good reason why you (and anyone writing for Phobos) can't change to
>just spaces only?

I would say use tabs only.

If tabs and spaces are not mixed you'll have no problems.
there are some disadvantages on using spaces for indentation.
if tabs only are used you can set the indentation width to whatever you like.

just to let every body know that tabs are better then spaces for indentation people migth have the wrong impression after your post.

if Walter decides phobos must have indentation with spaces we all loose
(but it's a small thing).

Ant

In article <caiaqb$ti1$1@digitaldaemon.com>, Walter says...
>
>
>"The Dr ... who?" <thedr@who.com> wrote in message news:cagnmh$1md2$1@digitaldaemon.com...
>> I get your tab scheme - Vim's softtabs / smarttabs - but it's just a PITA
>when
>> viewed with any other tools whose default tabs are not 8, or which have
>been set
>> to another tab setting.
>
>Printers, the linux command prompt, the windows command prompt, the DOS command prompt, the RT-11 command prompt, TOPS-10 command prompt, every TTY I've used from ASR-33 to VT-100, html browsers, etc., all have tab stops at 8. Programs that default to anything other than 8 should be abandoned. Programs that allow tab stops to be customized should be flogged.
>

you are stuck in the past, sorry.

Ant

"Walter" <newshound@digitalmars.com> wrote in message news:caiaqb$ti1$1@digitaldaemon.com...
>
> "The Dr ... who?" <thedr@who.com> wrote in message news:cagnmh$1md2$1@digitaldaemon.com...
> > I get your tab scheme - Vim's softtabs / smarttabs - but it's just a PITA
> when
> > viewed with any other tools whose default tabs are not 8, or which have
> been set
> > to another tab setting.
>
> Printers, the linux command prompt, the windows command prompt, the DOS command prompt, the RT-11 command prompt, TOPS-10 command prompt, every TTY I've used from ASR-33 to VT-100, html browsers, etc., all have tab stops at 8.

Well, yeah, we know, but ...

> Programs that default to anything other than 8 should be abandoned.

... they are out there, and they are legion, and your code looks crapola in them.

> Programs that allow tab stops to be customized should be flogged.

as above

> > Is there a good reason why you (and anyone writing for Phobos) can't
> change to
> > just spaces only?
>
> Habit <g>.

Sure. My habit is to use hard tabs, with tabstops set at four. But before I release stuff I run scripts - http://synsoft.org/perl.html; the tabstop can be set with -t<tabstop> - to untabify everything en masse. It's a 0.1% effort thing.

"Walter" <newshound@digitalmars.com> wrote in message news:caiaqb$ti1$1@digitaldaemon.com...
>
> "The Dr ... who?" <thedr@who.com> wrote in message news:cagnmh$1md2$1@digitaldaemon.com...
> > I get your tab scheme - Vim's softtabs / smarttabs - but it's just a
PITA
> when
> > viewed with any other tools whose default tabs are not 8, or which have
> been set
> > to another tab setting.
>
> Printers, the linux command prompt, the windows command prompt, the DOS command prompt, the RT-11 command prompt, TOPS-10 command prompt, every
TTY
> I've used from ASR-33 to VT-100, html browsers, etc., all have tab stops
at
> 8. Programs that default to anything other than 8 should be abandoned. Programs that allow tab stops to be customized should be flogged.
>
> > Is there a good reason why you (and anyone writing for Phobos) can't
> change to
> > just spaces only?
>
> Habit <g>.
>

I like having my tab width set to 3 spaces. I can see more code on the screen horizontally and still see the indentation well. I think that tabs should be used for indentation and spaces used for alignment, so that it looks fine to everyone's settings.

On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 17:49:00 -0400, Vathix <vathixSpamFix@dprogramming.com> wrote:
> "Walter" <newshound@digitalmars.com> wrote in message
> news:caiaqb$ti1$1@digitaldaemon.com...
>>
>> "The Dr ... who?" <thedr@who.com> wrote in message
>> news:cagnmh$1md2$1@digitaldaemon.com...
>> > I get your tab scheme - Vim's softtabs / smarttabs - but it's just a
> PITA
>> when
>> > viewed with any other tools whose default tabs are not 8, or which 
>> have
>> been set
>> > to another tab setting.
>>
>> Printers, the linux command prompt, the windows command prompt, the DOS
>> command prompt, the RT-11 command prompt, TOPS-10 command prompt, every
> TTY
>> I've used from ASR-33 to VT-100, html browsers, etc., all have tab stops
> at
>> 8. Programs that default to anything other than 8 should be abandoned.
>> Programs that allow tab stops to be customized should be flogged.
>>
>> > Is there a good reason why you (and anyone writing for Phobos) can't
>> change to
>> > just spaces only?
>>
>> Habit <g>.
>>
>
> I like having my tab width set to 3 spaces. I can see more code on the
> screen horizontally and still see the indentation well. I think that tabs
> should be used for indentation and spaces used for alignment, so that it
> looks fine to everyone's settings.

I agree. I use a tab width of 4 for the same reasons.

If you convert tabs to spaces then I cannot choose how to view your code, I am stuck viewing it how you want it.

If you want something to be aligned regardless of tab sizes, then use spaces.

If the code editor does not use a fixed width font, then all bets are off anyway where alignment is concerned.

Regan

-- 
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/

"Ant" <Ant_member@pathlink.com> wrote in message news:caihjb$1714$1@digitaldaemon.com...
> In article <caiaqb$ti1$1@digitaldaemon.com>, Walter says...
> >Printers, the linux command prompt, the windows command prompt, the DOS command prompt, the RT-11 command prompt, TOPS-10 command prompt, every
TTY
> >I've used from ASR-33 to VT-100, html browsers, etc., all have tab stops
at
> >8. Programs that default to anything other than 8 should be abandoned. Programs that allow tab stops to be customized should be flogged.
> >
>
> you are stuck in the past, sorry.

Sorry, I'm using the latest Microsoft Explorer, the latest HP laser printer, the latest Windows XP, and Red Hat Linux 9. All have 8 character tab stops wired in <g>.

On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 18:47:21 -0700, Walter wrote:

> 
> "Ant" <Ant_member@pathlink.com> wrote in message news:caihjb$1714$1@digitaldaemon.com...
>> In article <caiaqb$ti1$1@digitaldaemon.com>, Walter says...
>> >Printers, the linux command prompt, the windows command prompt, the DOS command prompt, the RT-11 command prompt, TOPS-10 command prompt, every
> TTY
>> >I've used from ASR-33 to VT-100, html browsers, etc., all have tab stops
> at
>> >8. Programs that default to anything other than 8 should be abandoned. Programs that allow tab stops to be customized should be flogged.
>> >
>>
>> you are stuck in the past, sorry.
> 
> Sorry, I'm using the latest Microsoft Explorer, the latest HP laser printer, the latest Windows XP, and Red Hat Linux 9. All have 8 character tab stops wired in <g>.

They are also living in the past ;)
printer? printer? who prints things anymore? that's 20th century ;)

But, that list doesn't contain a code editor.
All posters on this thread use tabs.
inclusive the original poster that asked for spaces!
all of them redefine the tab stops.

Ant

"Ant" <duitoolkit@yahoo.ca> wrote in message news:pan.2004.06.14.02.07.52.929078@yahoo.ca...
> On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 18:47:21 -0700, Walter wrote:
> >> you are stuck in the past, sorry.
> >
> > Sorry, I'm using the latest Microsoft Explorer, the latest HP laser
printer,
> > the latest Windows XP, and Red Hat Linux 9. All have 8 character tab
stops
> > wired in <g>.
>
> They are also living in the past ;)
> printer? printer? who prints things anymore? that's 20th century ;)
>
> But, that list doesn't contain a code editor.
> All posters on this thread use tabs.
> inclusive the original poster that asked for spaces!
> all of them redefine the tab stops.

I use microEmacs. Tabs are fixed at 8 <g>.

But seriously, if you use non-8 character tabs, the code won't print without using a special print program (when I want to print code, I don't want to look up the printer driver and try to figure out what arcane way to reset the tab stops, print, then set it back, I just want to print it), it won't look right in the source level debugger, it won't work as <pre></pre> in html pages, it won't 'type' to the screen on command prompt, etc. I don't want to run it through a perl script just so I can look at it. Non-8 tabs always going to be out of step with the way everything works. The code will always format like **** when emailed to someone who can't print it without special settings, etc. It might be fine for closely held source, but for widely distributed source, tabs need to kowtow to the default on practically every piece of hardware and software that displays ascii text.

I know lots of code editors that have soft tab settings. But as soon as you leave that environment, every other program or hardware that displays text will go awry with the result.

Distributed source code should be context-free, i.e. it shouldn't need to come with an external set of instructions saying what format it is in. And nobody ever bothers giving such instructions, so the inevitable result is the code looks like **** when brought up in an editor.