View mode: basic / threaded / horizontal-split · Log in · Help
February 09, 2013
Re: Should D1 only bugs be closed?
On Saturday, 9 February 2013 at 22:30:01 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
> D1 is no longer officially supported.

What does that actually mean?

Specifically:

- Will there be more D1 releases?
- Will D1 bug fixes be pulled?
- Should people still file D1 bugs?
- Should people care about D1 when submitting pulls for D2?

From what Andrej has linked to on github, it certainly looks like 
D1 is still being supported.
February 09, 2013
Re: Should D1 only bugs be closed?
On 2/9/2013 2:39 PM, Peter Alexander wrote:
> On Saturday, 9 February 2013 at 22:30:01 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
>> D1 is no longer officially supported.
>
> What does that actually mean?
>
> Specifically:
>
> - Will there be more D1 releases?
> - Will D1 bug fixes be pulled?
> - Should people still file D1 bugs?
> - Should people care about D1 when submitting pulls for D2?
>
>  From what Andrej has linked to on github, it certainly looks like D1 is still
> being supported.

People who are interested in D1 are welcome to submit pulls for them, and I'll 
pull them.

This shouldn't affect anyone else. That's the whole point of using git.
February 09, 2013
Re: Should D1 only bugs be closed?
On 2/9/13 5:09 PM, David Nadlinger wrote:
> On Saturday, 9 February 2013 at 18:04:29 UTC, Russel Winder wrote:
>> On Sat, 2013-02-09 at 18:30 +0100, Andrej Mitrovic wrote:
>>> Walter is still working on D1, as shown:
>>>
>>> https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dmd/commits/dmd-1.x
>>>
>>> We're all baffled as to why he's still wasting time on D1, when it was
>>> agreed we'd stop working on it after December 31st.
>>
>> This sort of thing makes it very hard for those of is trying to market
>> D. There is little enough resource developing D as it is and to have
>> significant amount of it working on dead code, seriously undermines the
>> message.
>
> The worst part is that there wasn't even an official announcement
> regarding the status of D1. The way the situation has been handled so
> far could be straight out of a »What not to do in project management«
> handbook.
>
> David

http://forum.dlang.org/post/jc0ic5$18bv$2@digitalmars.com

Looking forward to see you all at DConf 2013. I hope that meeting would 
put an end to the recent, let's say, less courteous exchanges in this 
group as of late.


Andrei
February 09, 2013
Re: Should D1 only bugs be closed?
On 2/9/13, Walter Bright <newshound2@digitalmars.com> wrote:
> This shouldn't affect anyone else. That's the whole point of using git.

How does it not affect us if *you* are taking the time to port D2 fixes to D1?

The whole announcement that D1 support is over after December 31st was
clearly completely pointless and a lie.
February 09, 2013
Re: Should D1 only bugs be closed?
On Saturday, 9 February 2013 at 22:50:18 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
> People who are interested in D1 are welcome to submit pulls for 
> them, and I'll pull them.
>
> This shouldn't affect anyone else. That's the whole point of 
> using git.

If it uses up your time then it affects everyone using D2 because 
it's time you're spending supporting an "unsupported" project 
instead of supporting D2.

It might be ok if D1 merges were a rare occurrence, but according 
to the github logs you're merging into the D1 on a daily basis.
February 10, 2013
Re: Should D1 only bugs be closed?
On Saturday, February 09, 2013 14:22:44 Walter Bright wrote:
> On 2/9/2013 8:33 AM, Peter Alexander wrote:
> > Quite a few of the older bugs are D1 only. Given that D1 is no longer
> > supported, should these just be closed?
> > 
> > e.g. http://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=309
> 
> No.

I think that what most of us expected to happen to D1 when official support was 
discontinued would be that no more work would occur on the D1 branch in the 
official repository at all, and all bugs in bugzilla for D1 would be closed as 
"won't fix." Anyone would be free to branch from the official repository and 
continue the project, but nothing in the official repository or bug tracker 
would do anything with D1 anymore. The only way that work on D1 would continue 
would be if someone else took it over the project and used their own fork to 
continue it. Pretty much anything short of that makes it seem like D1 is still 
supported. But apparently, you weren't thinking that way, and there's clearly 
been a misunderstanding as to what not supporting D1 meant.

- Jonathan M Davis
February 10, 2013
Re: Should D1 only bugs be closed?
On Saturday, 9 February 2013 at 22:30:01 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
> D1 is no longer officially supported. There are a couple users 
> of D1 still (like Don), and it would be discourteous to try to 
> purge D1. The point of using git is that branches can exist and 
> be amended if a reason comes up to do so.

I know, you've mentioned it as a side note on some 
dmd-internals/GitHub discussion.

Note that even though I would obviously love to see more 
corporate users contributing to D2, I'm not at all trying to 
discourage Don, Leandro and the others from Sociomantic from 
continuing to work on D1.

There just has not really been an official announcement regarding 
the ongoing D1 development, and what form it will continue in.

> I don't see how anyone has been damaged or even inconvenienced 
> here.

I think a lack of clear communication in this area can be a 
threat in two ways:

First, from how discussions in the different online fora usually 
go, the D development is not exactly perceived as principled or 
organized by many outsiders. And seemingly continuing to support 
a product after its firmly announced discontinuation date is only 
going to add to that, as Russel noted earlier.

Second, and perhaps even more importantly, such situations will 
almost invariably startle the developer community, as evidenced 
by the posts in this thread, and the (as usual, slightly ... 
direct) "wtf is Walter doing" messages that have been popping up 
on IRC lately.

I don't want to make it seem as if I knew it all and had the 
answer to all process-related questions; I certainly don't and 
there are many people here who are much more experienced in the 
various aspects of software development than I am. But I *do* 
think that I have recognized the vital importance of 
communication to the success of any big problem (open source or 
not). And, as I think I mentioned elsewhere recently, it occurs 
to me that a lack or delay in communication has been the 
recurring theme in many of the more unfortunate turns and missed 
opportunities in D's history.

In retrospect, some of my recent messages might have turned out a 
little bit too blunt. Please accept my apologies, I just tried to 
state my opinion clearly and did not intend to offend anybody. 
But I'd hate to see the same story being repeated all over again, 
and it seems that unfortunately it is the most direct queries 
that tend receive a response the fastest...

David
February 10, 2013
Re: Should D1 only bugs be closed?
On Saturday, 9 February 2013 at 23:08:55 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
wrote:
> http://forum.dlang.org/post/jc0ic5$18bv$2@digitalmars.com

That post is over a year old, and the point was precisely that 
recent development activity seemed to contradict this statement.

> Looking forward to see you all at DConf 2013. I hope that 
> meeting would put an end to the recent, let's say, less 
> courteous exchanges in this group as of late.

As written in my reply to Walter, I didn't intend to offend 
anybody, but I *am* beginning to feel somewhat like a broken 
record asking for more proactively communicating decisions that 
concern the D project as a whole. Just don't let any ambiguities 
arise in the first place.

Oh, and I am certainly looking forward to meeting you all at this 
year's DConf as well.

David
February 10, 2013
Re: Should D1 only bugs be closed?
On Sunday, 10 February 2013 at 03:20:26 UTC, David Nadlinger 
wrote:
> That post is over a year old, and the point was precisely that 
> recent development activity seemed to contradict this statement.

The D Progamming Language book discusses this decision as well.
February 10, 2013
Re: Should D1 only bugs be closed?
Am Sat, 09 Feb 2013 22:41:18 +0100
schrieb "Peter Alexander" <peter.alexander.au@gmail.com>:

> On Saturday, 9 February 2013 at 21:11:36 UTC, Marco Leise wrote:
> > If people who want or have to stick with D1 make pull requests
> > for bugs they fixed that's good. Just keep them open I'd say
> > unless they require a new feature to be implemented.
> 
> I thought the point of discontinuing support was so that Walter 
> didn't have to waste time pulling things into the D1 branch and 
> making releases? If he's not going to be doing that then there's 
> no point people making pull requests, and no point having the 
> bugs in the database.
> 
> That being said, as Andrej has highlighted above, it appears that 
> D1 in fact has not been discontinued at all. There's still daily 
> activity on that branch, so I'm wondering now what's actually 
> going on?

Maybe this project was thought of as an operating system
where you just discontinue support and updates, but it turned
out that with open source and GitHub it is actually possible
with little effort to allow D1 users (and we have corporate
users there) to fix remaining bugs.
I'm far from a core DMD developer, so I don't understand your
dependence on Walter's full attention to D2. I'm just saying
it seems legit to me, to keep Don & Co. on board. I'd just
drop making D1 releases as a compromise.

-- 
Marco
1 2 3
Top | Discussion index | About this forum | D home