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September 20, 2012
LDC blacklisted in Ubuntu
Some rather urgent news: LDC has just been blacklisted in Ubuntu.
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ldc/+bug/941549

This seems to be entirely down to no one keeping the Debian 
universe up to date with the latest LDC work. :-(

Could someone on the LDC team get in touch with Ubuntu and see 
what can be done about this?
September 20, 2012
Re: LDC blacklisted in Ubuntu
On Thursday, 20 September 2012 at 17:26:25 UTC, Joseph Rushton 
Wakeling wrote:
> Some rather urgent news: LDC has just been blacklisted in 
> Ubuntu.

It is not really news, as the LDC version in the Debian repo has 
not been updated for ages. But yes, it would definitely be 
important to have an LDC package in as many distribution repos as 
possible.

> This seems to be entirely down to no one keeping the Debian 
> universe up to date with the latest LDC work. :-(
>
> Could someone on the LDC team get in touch with Ubuntu and see 
> what can be done about this?

As far as I see, we would at the very least need somebody to 
maintain the Debian/Ubuntu packages for this. Unfortunately, 
nobody on the core dev team uses Ubuntu for their daily work, or 
has other experiences with Debian packages.

It would be great if somebody from the D community experienced in 
packaging could jump in to help us on this front. We'd be happy 
to help with any questions, and I don't think the packaging 
process should be particularly difficult (LDC builds fine on 
Ubuntu, and Arch and Fedora are already shipping recent 
versions). The thing is just that creating good packages for a 
system you are not intimately familiar with is quite hard, and we 
are already chronically lacking manpower anyway.

David
September 20, 2012
Re: LDC blacklisted in Ubuntu
On Thursday, 20 September 2012 at 18:03:18 UTC, David Nadlinger 
wrote:
> On Thursday, 20 September 2012 at 17:26:25 UTC, Joseph Rushton 
> Wakeling wrote:
>> Some rather urgent news: LDC has just been blacklisted in 
>> Ubuntu.
>
> It would be great if somebody from the D community experienced 
> in packaging could jump in to help us on this front.

I've done some debs before and might be able to find some time to 
do it depending on how complex the package is.

I haven't tried LDC before though. Can you provide some info on 
how to get started with the LDC building/packaging?

/Jonas
September 20, 2012
Re: LDC blacklisted in Ubuntu
On Thursday, 20 September 2012 at 18:03:18 UTC, David Nadlinger 
wrote:
> Unfortunately, nobody on the core dev team uses Ubuntu for 
> their daily work, or has other experiences with Debian packages.

I didn't mean "packages" of course, but "packaging". Knowing how 
to use dpkg or build the occasional .deb is one thing, but 
knowing the Debian conventions enough to get a new package 
accepted is an entirely different one.

David
September 20, 2012
Re: LDC blacklisted in Ubuntu
On Thursday, 20 September 2012 at 20:07:56 UTC, Jonas Drewsen 
wrote:
> I've done some debs before and might be able to find some time 
> to do it depending on how complex the package is.
>
> I haven't tried LDC before though. Can you provide some info on 
> how to get started with the LDC building/packaging?

This would be great!

The build process really shouldn't be more complicated than 
fetching sources and submodules from 
https://github.com/ldc-developers/ldc, running CMake and then 
"make install". See the README for a short description and a link 
to a longer one.

Packaging shouldn't really be any more difficult than that 
either, as we are using a pretty standard build system and have 
no exotic dependencies. Here are the Fedora and Arch package 
sources, maybe they are helpful:

https://admin.fedoraproject.org/pkgdb/acls/name/ldc
https://projects.archlinux.org/svntogit/community.git/tree/trunk/PKGBUILD?h=packages/ldc

David
September 21, 2012
Re: LDC blacklisted in Ubuntu
On 20/09/12 19:04, David Nadlinger wrote:
> On Thursday, 20 September 2012 at 17:26:25 UTC, Joseph Rushton Wakeling wrote:
>> Some rather urgent news: LDC has just been blacklisted in Ubuntu.
>
> It is not really news, as the LDC version in the Debian repo has not been
> updated for ages.

It's not news that the package is out of date, but it _is_ news that the package 
has been blacklisted, and very unwelcome news, because it could make it much 
more difficult to get an updated package included.

> But yes, it would definitely be important to have an LDC
> package in as many distribution repos as possible.

I'd add here that you're talking about by far the most widely used distro.

> As far as I see, we would at the very least need somebody to maintain the
> Debian/Ubuntu packages for this. Unfortunately, nobody on the core dev team uses
> Ubuntu for their daily work, or has other experiences with Debian packages.
>
> It would be great if somebody from the D community experienced in packaging
> could jump in to help us on this front. We'd be happy to help with any
> questions, and I don't think the packaging process should be particularly
> difficult (LDC builds fine on Ubuntu, and Arch and Fedora are already shipping
> recent versions). The thing is just that creating good packages for a system you
> are not intimately familiar with is quite hard, and we are already chronically
> lacking manpower anyway.

Isn't it worth someone from the LDC team discussing with the Ubuntu people 
concerned (e.g. the person who decided to blacklist the package) and try and get 
their feedback and advice on packaging?  My experience is that the Ubuntu team 
are fairly friendly and helpful.

AFAICS the reason this situation has arisen is because you've got a bug on 
Launchpad that never got communicated as far as the LDC devs.  Opening that 
channel of communication could help prevent something like this happening again.
September 22, 2012
Re: LDC blacklisted in Ubuntu
On Fri, 2012-09-21 at 21:00 +0100, Joseph Rushton Wakeling wrote:
[…]
> Isn't it worth someone from the LDC team discussing with the Ubuntu people 
> concerned (e.g. the person who decided to blacklist the package) and try and get 
> their feedback and advice on packaging?  My experience is that the Ubuntu team 
> are fairly friendly and helpful.

Perhaps even better talk with the Debian people to find a route into the
Debian repository, which then automatically gets to be part of Ubuntu
and Mint.

> AFAICS the reason this situation has arisen is because you've got a bug on 
> Launchpad that never got communicated as far as the LDC devs.  Opening that 
> channel of communication could help prevent something like this happening again.

Indeed.

-- 
Russel.
=============================================================================
Dr Russel Winder      t: +44 20 7585 2200   voip: sip:russel.winder@ekiga.net
41 Buckmaster Road    m: +44 7770 465 077   xmpp: russel@winder.org.uk
London SW11 1EN, UK   w: www.russel.org.uk  skype: russel_winder
September 23, 2012
Re: LDC blacklisted in Ubuntu
On 22/09/12 11:13, Russel Winder wrote:
> Perhaps even better talk with the Debian people to find a route into the
> Debian repository, which then automatically gets to be part of Ubuntu
> and Mint.

In the bigger picture yes, but as in this case it's Ubuntu that's blacklisted 
the package, probably best to go straight to them.

There may also be a benefit in having a direct relationship with Ubuntu because 
their more frequent release cycle may make it easier to ensure the most 
up-to-date package is out there.  IIRC their relationship with most packages in 
Debian is to take a snapshot of Sid at a particular point in time, so if you've 
got a new release of LDC after that snapshot is taken, it may be passed over 
unless you go to Ubuntu directly.
September 23, 2012
Re: LDC blacklisted in Ubuntu
On 9/20/2012 1:08 PM, Jonas Drewsen wrote:
> On Thursday, 20 September 2012 at 18:03:18 UTC, David Nadlinger wrote:
>> On Thursday, 20 September 2012 at 17:26:25 UTC, Joseph Rushton Wakeling wrote:
>>> Some rather urgent news: LDC has just been blacklisted in Ubuntu.
>>
>> It would be great if somebody from the D community experienced in packaging
>> could jump in to help us on this front.
>
> I've done some debs before and might be able to find some time to do it
> depending on how complex the package is.
>
> I haven't tried LDC before though. Can you provide some info on how to get
> started with the LDC building/packaging?

Perhaps the deb building script written by Jordi for dmd can be helpful as a guide?

https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/installer
September 26, 2012
Re: LDC blacklisted in Ubuntu
On Friday, 21 September 2012 at 19:59:36 UTC, Joseph Rushton 
Wakeling wrote:
> I'd add here that you're talking about by far the most widely 
> used distro.
> […]
> Isn't it worth someone from the LDC team discussing with the 
> Ubuntu people concerned (e.g. the person who decided to 
> blacklist the package) and try and get their feedback and 
> advice on packaging?  My experience is that the Ubuntu team are 
> fairly friendly and helpful.

I don't doubt that distro packages are vital for providing a 
smooth experience for Linux users. However, and this is 
unfortunately a big "however", at the same time I don't think I 
will be able to look into providing those packages myself any 
time soon (besides for Arch, but that front is already covered; 
big thanks to Sven/svenstaro!), simply because I'm happy if I 
find enough time to look into any LDC issues whatsoever at all 
right now.

Joseph, Russel, you seem to be both personally interested in 
D/LDC and quite knowledgeable about Debian-style packaging. Might 
I suggest that you think about joining the LDC forces as a 
package maintainer? It certainly isn't a huge amount of work to 
do, but many small items also add up…

Thanks,
David
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