June 02, 2005
J C Calvarese wrote:

>Agreed. std isn't so bad for std.string and some things like that. I happen 
>>to also think things like std.math and std.c.math would be better as d.math and c.math but definitely the double std modules are the least appealing. 
>
> Most of the double std modules could be easily fixed, by making a few
> module-specific changes...
> 
> std.stdio  -> std.io
> std.stdint -> std.integer
> std.stdarg -> std.vararg
> 
> But I'm repeating myself, so I'll leave it there.

Is *that* the problem here ? The two "std" ? :-O


But "stdint" is not just about any integer, it's about
porting from C/C++ ? Kinda like "stdbool", which is in
object.d (and inside the D compiler) at the moment...

http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/009695399/basedefs/stdint.h.html
http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/009695399/basedefs/stdbool.h.html
(but I won't bring my old stdutf and stdfloat suggestions up again...)

And what about the "std.c.windows.windows" or
"std.c.unix.unix". Are those also too repeated ?

(I don't see the problem with them, being used to:
#include <Carbon/Carbon.h> #import <Cocoa/Cocoa.h>)


Changing traditional stdio and stdarg just doesn't seem worth it, to me.
Besides, doesn't "io" already belong to *another* planet already ? ;-)

--anders
June 02, 2005
I just wanted to say that althought I was being nice to TZ, I ABSOLUTELY agree that he had a bad attitude, and ALSO that adding GUI code into the LANGUAGE is not only retarded, but against the whole concept of a system level language.

I use D cause it's modern, system level, and fast. Not because it has "time saving" gui features. Perhaps Visual Basic is the language he should go use.. I started there, and thats perhaps why I can appricate having a real language to write with at a system level...

Anyhoo, just wanted to say that I am glad that we can discuss this stuff, I diddn't mean to dicousrage it.. Only to ask what people were thinking about the reality of such changes.

I am glad this newsgroup isn't full of jerks like EFNet IRC rooms are... I can ask a dumb question at 5:00am and not get ridiculed... To me, that is a good comunity.

So yes, we should keep talking about this stuff, but mostly stick together and stick with D.

I admit to having a fear that causes loss of sleep sometimes that D will die like BeOS did, or that my software I write being open source will somehow screw me over in the end... But something about this newsgroup helps me sleep.

So thanks for participating and reading the crap I write from time to time.

D = my language of choice, and I hope it to be for a very long time.

Thanks,
Trevor Parscal
www.trevorparscal.com
trevorparscal@hotmail.com
June 02, 2005
"Trevor Parscal" <trevorparscal@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:d7luvv$2d8$1@digitaldaemon.com...
> Are we still on this subject cause nothing has happened, or because the opposition to changing things feels the attack is not over?

The battle is not over - send in the clones! :-)
Seriously, though, I think people said what they wanted to say and that's
that. Walter can do what he wants.

> Is D really done by committee? I thought we only had the power of suggestion. And to me, argument leads to only more fear of change (in Walter's eyes i suppose) as you don't want to anger the loyal programmers..

Interesting thoughts. I hope and suspect Walter isn't afraid to change things that have been around for a while. He's said the core parts of D are set so there are some things he won't change but I assumed before posting that the std name wasn't one of those things.

[snip]
> Here it is. I love the D community, and I look forward to every day of programing and socializing over this newsgroup... But I have to ask myself, what is actually being done everyday. I mean, we should be talking about our projects, asking and answering questions, etc. Not arguing so very much.

This newsgroup does tend to be the place where language topics come up that grow out of frustrations developed while working on a project. For example with me all the std.stdio and std.c.stdio typing that I've been doing to add FILE* streams lead me to remember how in the past some people complainded about std and so I thought I post and see what people thought. I don't think this thread was particularly argumentative - I tend to stop reading those that look like the posters have started arguing.

> So maybe Walter should have stuck with d instead of std. Lets just be content with whatever Walter decides for D, let him do what he WANTS to do, and not restrict him so much with out demands of traditionalism.

I don't understand what is meant by demands of traditionalism but aside from that I agree that Walter should do what he wants. The newsgroup is an important place for him to get feedback on D so I think the more posts about what's bothering people the better.

> Lets all work on a project of out own, or one on D source.
>
> Anyone with me?

I think one can work on projects and contribute to newsgroup discussions at the same time.

> And yes, I like to type.. So sue me!
>
> -- 
> Thanks,
> Trevor Parscal
> www.trevorparscal.com
> trevorparscal@hotmail.com


June 03, 2005
"Trevor Parscal" <Trevor_member@pathlink.com> wrote in message news:d7jpo4$uad$1@digitaldaemon.com...
> In article <d7jp8f$u1o$1@digitaldaemon.com>, J C Calvarese says...
>>
>>In article <1o6qpoefvv20w$.i85textgh7d9$.dlg@40tude.net>, Derek Parnell says...
>>>
>>>On Tue, 31 May 2005 23:35:26 -0700, Andrew Fedoniouk wrote:
>>>
>>>> d is distance, discriminant, data.
>>>
>>>d is dumb  ;-)
>>
>>It's not dumb. It's just the letter I use when a, b, and c are already used. :)
>>
>>jcc7
>
> why use a, b, c, d... ? Arrays are SOOO much more flexible, powerful, manageable, and in most cases, faster when compiled.
>
> Eh.. whatever, It's not the point.. I won't name my varaible that way..
>
> and why would you have a user data type that's all lowercase?
>
> foreach(distance d; ...
>
> Wouldnt that be
>
> foreach(DISTANCE distance; ...
>
> or
>
> foreach(Distance distance; ...
>
> Well... I appricate the feedback anyhoo.

Naming is personal.

I am trying to use:
DISTANCE  - enum and its value, constants, template typenames.
Distance -  class and structure with semantic of class.
distance - aliased or typedefed ints, doubles, etc. and
                structures with semantic of value:
                e.g. rect, point, size - they are just basic values
                treated, as a rule, as one single entity.



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