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June 02, 2005
Re: should std package be renamed?
J C Calvarese wrote:

>Agreed. std isn't so bad for std.string and some things like that. I happen 
>>to also think things like std.math and std.c.math would be better as d.math 
>>and c.math but definitely the double std modules are the least appealing. 
>
> Most of the double std modules could be easily fixed, by making a few
> module-specific changes...
> 
> std.stdio  -> std.io
> std.stdint -> std.integer
> std.stdarg -> std.vararg
> 
> But I'm repeating myself, so I'll leave it there.

Is *that* the problem here ? The two "std" ? :-O


But "stdint" is not just about any integer, it's about
porting from C/C++ ? Kinda like "stdbool", which is in
object.d (and inside the D compiler) at the moment...

http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/009695399/basedefs/stdint.h.html
http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/009695399/basedefs/stdbool.h.html
(but I won't bring my old stdutf and stdfloat suggestions up again...)

And what about the "std.c.windows.windows" or
"std.c.unix.unix". Are those also too repeated ?

(I don't see the problem with them, being used to:
#include <Carbon/Carbon.h> #import <Cocoa/Cocoa.h>)


Changing traditional stdio and stdarg just doesn't seem worth it, to me.
Besides, doesn't "io" already belong to *another* planet already ? ;-)

--anders
June 02, 2005
Re: should std package be renamed?
I just wanted to say that althought I was being nice to TZ, I ABSOLUTELY agree
that he had a bad attitude, and ALSO that adding GUI code into the LANGUAGE is
not only retarded, but against the whole concept of a system level language.

I use D cause it's modern, system level, and fast. Not because it has "time
saving" gui features. Perhaps Visual Basic is the language he should go use.. I
started there, and thats perhaps why I can appricate having a real language to
write with at a system level...

Anyhoo, just wanted to say that I am glad that we can discuss this stuff, I
diddn't mean to dicousrage it.. Only to ask what people were thinking about the
reality of such changes.

I am glad this newsgroup isn't full of jerks like EFNet IRC rooms are... I can
ask a dumb question at 5:00am and not get ridiculed... To me, that is a good
comunity.

So yes, we should keep talking about this stuff, but mostly stick together and
stick with D.

I admit to having a fear that causes loss of sleep sometimes that D will die
like BeOS did, or that my software I write being open source will somehow screw
me over in the end... But something about this newsgroup helps me sleep.

So thanks for participating and reading the crap I write from time to time.

D = my language of choice, and I hope it to be for a very long time.

Thanks,
Trevor Parscal
www.trevorparscal.com
trevorparscal@hotmail.com
June 02, 2005
Re: should std package be renamed?
"Trevor Parscal" <trevorparscal@hotmail.com> wrote in message 
news:d7luvv$2d8$1@digitaldaemon.com...
> Are we still on this subject cause nothing has happened, or because the 
> opposition to changing things feels the attack is not over?

The battle is not over - send in the clones! :-)
Seriously, though, I think people said what they wanted to say and that's 
that. Walter can do what he wants.

> Is D really done by committee? I thought we only had the power of 
> suggestion. And to me, argument leads to only more fear of change (in 
> Walter's eyes i suppose) as you don't want to anger the loyal 
> programmers..

Interesting thoughts. I hope and suspect Walter isn't afraid to change 
things that have been around for a while. He's said the core parts of D are 
set so there are some things he won't change but I assumed before posting 
that the std name wasn't one of those things.

[snip]
> Here it is. I love the D community, and I look forward to every day of 
> programing and socializing over this newsgroup... But I have to ask 
> myself, what is actually being done everyday. I mean, we should be talking 
> about our projects, asking and answering questions, etc. Not arguing so 
> very much.

This newsgroup does tend to be the place where language topics come up that 
grow out of frustrations developed while working on a project. For example 
with me all the std.stdio and std.c.stdio typing that I've been doing to add 
FILE* streams lead me to remember how in the past some people complainded 
about std and so I thought I post and see what people thought. I don't think 
this thread was particularly argumentative - I tend to stop reading those 
that look like the posters have started arguing.

> So maybe Walter should have stuck with d instead of std. Lets just be 
> content with whatever Walter decides for D, let him do what he WANTS to 
> do, and not restrict him so much with out demands of traditionalism.

I don't understand what is meant by demands of traditionalism but aside from 
that I agree that Walter should do what he wants. The newsgroup is an 
important place for him to get feedback on D so I think the more posts about 
what's bothering people the better.

> Lets all work on a project of out own, or one on D source.
>
> Anyone with me?

I think one can work on projects and contribute to newsgroup discussions at 
the same time.

> And yes, I like to type.. So sue me!
>
> -- 
> Thanks,
> Trevor Parscal
> www.trevorparscal.com
> trevorparscal@hotmail.com
June 03, 2005
Re: The Focus of D
"Trevor Parscal" <Trevor_member@pathlink.com> wrote in message 
news:d7jpo4$uad$1@digitaldaemon.com...
> In article <d7jp8f$u1o$1@digitaldaemon.com>, J C Calvarese says...
>>
>>In article <1o6qpoefvv20w$.i85textgh7d9$.dlg@40tude.net>, Derek Parnell 
>>says...
>>>
>>>On Tue, 31 May 2005 23:35:26 -0700, Andrew Fedoniouk wrote:
>>>
>>>> d is distance, discriminant, data.
>>>
>>>d is dumb  ;-)
>>
>>It's not dumb. It's just the letter I use when a, b, and c are already 
>>used. :)
>>
>>jcc7
>
> why use a, b, c, d... ? Arrays are SOOO much more flexible, powerful,
> manageable, and in most cases, faster when compiled.
>
> Eh.. whatever, It's not the point.. I won't name my varaible that way..
>
> and why would you have a user data type that's all lowercase?
>
> foreach(distance d; ...
>
> Wouldnt that be
>
> foreach(DISTANCE distance; ...
>
> or
>
> foreach(Distance distance; ...
>
> Well... I appricate the feedback anyhoo.

Naming is personal.

I am trying to use:
DISTANCE  - enum and its value, constants, template typenames.
Distance -  class and structure with semantic of class.
distance - aliased or typedefed ints, doubles, etc. and
               structures with semantic of value:
               e.g. rect, point, size - they are just basic values
               treated, as a rule, as one single entity.
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