Derelict now includes three packages to encompass the DevIL libraries: DerelictIL, DerelictILU, and DerelictILUT. The original hard work was done by Tomasz Stachowiak (h3r3tic over at dsource). I just reorganized things a bit and added the docs and such. (NOTE: As of yet, only the Windows build scripts have been tested - nothing has been tested on Linux yet, though the Makefiles are there and ready to go).

For those who are not aware of Derelict, the following packages are also part of the project:

DerelictAL - OpenAL
DerelictGL - OpenGL
DerelictGLU - GL Utility library
DerelictGLFW - GL FrameWork
DerelictSDL - Simple Direct Media Layer
DerelictSDLImage - SDL_image
DerelictSDLMixer - SDL_mixer
DerelictSDLNet - SDL_net
DerelictSDLTTF - SDL_ttf

Each package currently works on both Windows and Linux. You can always pick up the latest version of the Derelict package by pointing your favorite SVN client to http://svn.dsource.org/projects/derelict/trunk/

For more information or help regarding the Derelict packages, visit the Derelict forums at http://www.dsource.org/forums/viewforum.php?f=19

Great work.

Let me go out of topic with a question:
Why is that that dsource project pages looks lie as they do?
http://www.dsource.org/projects/derelict/ gives me the feeling that the
project isn't alive anymore.
No news, no announcements etc. Not even a packagelist like you gave -  If
I'd like to know more about a given project, I have to download with svn
(why would I if I don't know what is it) and "reverse engineer", or have to
search net/news. (This concerns a lot of similar projects. To have one
simple web page of "marketing" is just as important than the code inside.)

ElfQT

"Mike Parker" <aldacron71@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:ddv188$2cc7$1@digitaldaemon.com...
> Derelict now includes three packages to encompass the DevIL libraries: DerelictIL, DerelictILU, and DerelictILUT. The original hard work was done by Tomasz Stachowiak (h3r3tic over at dsource). I just reorganized things a bit and added the docs and such. (NOTE: As of yet, only the Windows build scripts have been tested - nothing has been tested on Linux yet, though the Makefiles are there and ready to go).
>
> For those who are not aware of Derelict, the following packages are also part of the project:
>
> DerelictAL - OpenAL
> DerelictGL - OpenGL
> DerelictGLU - GL Utility library
> DerelictGLFW - GL FrameWork
> DerelictSDL - Simple Direct Media Layer
> DerelictSDLImage - SDL_image
> DerelictSDLMixer - SDL_mixer
> DerelictSDLNet - SDL_net
> DerelictSDLTTF - SDL_ttf
>
> Each package currently works on both Windows and Linux. You can always pick up the latest version of the Derelict package by pointing your favorite SVN client to http://svn.dsource.org/projects/derelict/trunk/
>
> For more information or help regarding the Derelict packages, visit the Derelict forums at http://www.dsource.org/forums/viewforum.php?f=19

ElfQT wrote:
> Great work.

Thanks!

> 
> Let me go out of topic with a question:
> Why is that that dsource project pages looks lie as they do?
> http://www.dsource.org/projects/derelict/ gives me the feeling that the
> project isn't alive anymore.
> No news, no announcements etc. Not even a packagelist like you gave -  If
> I'd like to know more about a given project, I have to download with svn
> (why would I if I don't know what is it) and "reverse engineer", or have to
> search net/news. (This concerns a lot of similar projects. To have one
> simple web page of "marketing" is just as important than the code inside.)


I have nothing to market. This is something I maintain in my free time and make available to other members of the D community. I'll probably put some downloads up in the future, but for now it's too much of a hassle for me to deal with. Besides, the forum (which is linked to from the project page) has a nice explanation of how to get the files from SVN, and dsource has information on how to obtain and use an SVN client.

Ultimately, as Derelict grows and DMD hits a 1.0 release, I'll take more time to maintain the project and give it a dedicated website with all of the prerequisites. For now, I just can't be bothered. I've got more important things on my plate to deal with. I update when I can or when the urge takes me. If you intend to use any DSource projects, get used to SVN!

On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 13:24:22 +0200, ElfQT wrote:

> Let me go out of topic with a question:
> Why is that that dsource project pages looks lie as they do?
> http://www.dsource.org/projects/derelict/ gives me the feeling that the
> project isn't alive anymore.
> No news, no announcements etc. Not even a packagelist like you gave -  If
> I'd like to know more about a given project, I have to download with svn
> (why would I if I don't know what is it) and "reverse engineer", or have to
> search net/news. (This concerns a lot of similar projects. To have one
> simple web page of "marketing" is just as important than the code inside.)

Firstly I believe that DSource internals will be changing to make things a bit easier for everyone concerned. But even with the current DSource, it is possible to make project files more accessible than having to use SVN. If you take a look at my Build project page you can see that there are downloads you can kick off without SVN, and the news etc... is reasonably up to date. Unfortunately, in order to get most things on the page updated (except the downloads) we have to explicitly ask Brad, via email, to update it for us.

I'm *not* trying to 'bad mouth' the custodians of other DSource pages, but I think we can make things easier for potential 'customers'.

-- 
Derek Parnell
Melbourne, Australia
17/08/2005 11:22:13 PM

In article <lqavgc707wzb.1c29z3f6rsjzi$.dlg@40tude.net>, Derek Parnell says...
>
>On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 13:24:22 +0200, ElfQT wrote:
>
>> Let me go out of topic with a question:
>> Why is that that dsource project pages looks lie as they do?
>> http://www.dsource.org/projects/derelict/ gives me the feeling that the
>> project isn't alive anymore.
>> No news, no announcements etc. Not even a packagelist like you gave -  If
>> I'd like to know more about a given project, I have to download with svn
>> (why would I if I don't know what is it) and "reverse engineer", or have to
>> search net/news. (This concerns a lot of similar projects. To have one
>> simple web page of "marketing" is just as important than the code inside.)
>
>Firstly I believe that DSource internals will be changing to make things a bit easier for everyone concerned. But even with the current DSource, it is possible to make project files more accessible than having to use SVN. If you take a look at my Build project page you can see that there are downloads you can kick off without SVN, and the news etc... is reasonably up to date. Unfortunately, in order to get most things on the page updated (except the downloads) we have to explicitly ask Brad, via email, to update it for us.
>
>I'm *not* trying to 'bad mouth' the custodians of other DSource pages, but I think we can make things easier for potential 'customers'.
>
>-- 
>Derek Parnell
>Melbourne, Australia
>17/08/2005 11:22:13 PM

Derek,

I think what you're doing with Build is great, and I think what Mike is doing with Derelict is great. Not everyone has the same priorities. If Mike would rather spend more time coding and less time presenting it to the general public, that's his call.

Since as far as I can tell no one around DSource is asking the "customer" for money, I don't see how "selling" the product is any more important than creating the "product". If people have a question about a project, usually all they have to do is post a question in a forum. Some projects use more SVN; some provide zip's more often. It's clearly the call of the person running the project. Volunteers should be allowed to volunteer their time and effort as they see fit. Let's not get into a bunch of second-guessing each other.

jcc7

I don't feel that myself (or Mike) would have been offensive.
What I'd tried to describe, with all my respect to the coders building (for)
the community,
that there is less public info on their work than it should be.

> ... I don't see how "selling" the product is any more important than
creating
> the "product".  ...
Well then, why these groups contribute to open projects? Don't they wan't
their products (their code, their libs, their programs, their work) to be
used, or used widely? Then they have to market it, which means to spread the
word (and at least put up a web page with description and maybe news).
Or they can create the products in total silence, but then why they are
doing it open and public?

> If people have a question about a project, usually all they have
> to do is post a question in a forum. Some projects use more SVN; some
provide
> zip's more often ....
It's not about Zip or SVN. I would not download a project, if I don't know it's exists, or if I get the idea seeing the web page that the project is dead, or if I can't find it with, say, google etc.

ElfQT

In article <ddvpnk$2eb$1@digitaldaemon.com>, ElfQT says...
>
>I don't feel that myself (or Mike) would have been offensive.
>What I'd tried to describe, with all my respect to the coders building (for)
>the community,
>that there is less public info on their work than it should be.

I don't think that anyone should have been offended by either you or Derek (and I didn't mean to offend either).

I'm just saying most (if not all) of the dsource projects are volunteer-led projects. I'm all-for suggesting improvements, but no demands can be made (not that any demands have been made). (Also, it might make more sense to have this discussion on a Dsource forum than here, but that's beside the point.)

Also, the dsource system is very much a "work-in-progress". Brad has high hopes for Trac, but he hasn't been ready to launch that fun stuff, too. Hopefully, he'll start rolling out some more Trac integration soon.

>> ... I don't see how "selling" the product is any more important than
>creating
>> the "product".  ...
>Well then, why these groups contribute to open projects? Don't they wan't
>their products (their code, their libs, their programs, their work) to be
>used, or used widely? Then they have to market it, which means to spread the
>word (and at least put up a web page with description and maybe news).
>Or they can create the products in total silence, but then why they are
>doing it open and public?

How many dsource projects are really that collaborative? Most are one-person operations. The leaders will accept contributions, but most of the work is done by a single individual. They post announcements here to gather interest and they have forums for discussion. It'd be great if they all had elaborate webpages, but they're being generous just by making code available. If someone wants the code, they can see it. A project leader shouldn't _have_ to sell the product -- the project's being given away!

>> If people have a question about a project, usually all they have
>> to do is post a question in a forum. Some projects use more SVN; some
>provide
>> zip's more often ....
>It's not about Zip or SVN. I would not download a project, if I don't know it's exists, or if I get the idea seeing the web page that the project is dead, or if I can't find it with, say, google etc.

Maybe the project with a poor webpage did die, but if there's quality code available you might want to pick it up where they left off. Dead projects can have nice webpages, too (http://www.opend.org/ keeps on tricking people for example), so I don't know what that proves.

I was more directing my comments at Derek more than at you, so I'm sorry if I ticked you off. I'm just afraid that Derek's making the rest of the dsource developers feel like underachievers (since he's doing such a great job with Build). ;)

jcc7

J C Calvarese wrote:

> Also, the dsource system is very much a "work-in-progress". Brad has high hopes for Trac, but he hasn't been ready to launch that fun stuff, too. Hopefully, he'll start rolling out some more Trac integration soon.
> 

Yes, that would have been nice. Sadly, it seems the trac project has decided to delay Brads additions until the 1.0 release, and 0.9 isn't out yet and have taken ages. Maybe he'll roll a customized version, but that'll hamper future upgrades.

Lars Ivar Igesund

In article <de00uc$88f$2@digitaldaemon.com>, Lars Ivar Igesund says...
>
>J C Calvarese wrote:
>
>> Also, the dsource system is very much a "work-in-progress". Brad has high hopes for Trac, but he hasn't been ready to launch that fun stuff, too. Hopefully, he'll start rolling out some more Trac integration soon.
>> 
>
>Yes, that would have been nice. Sadly, it seems the trac project has decided to delay Brads additions until the 1.0 release, and 0.9 isn't out yet and have taken ages. Maybe he'll roll a customized version, but that'll hamper future upgrades.
>
>Lars Ivar Igesund

Oh, I hadn't heard about this development. I think the Trac team is moving in the right direction, but I wish they'd get there faster. ;)

"Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there." - Will Rogers

jcc7

Lars Ivar Igesund wrote:
> J C Calvarese wrote:
> 
> 
>>Also, the dsource system is very much a "work-in-progress". Brad has high hopes for Trac, but he hasn't been ready to launch that fun stuff, too. Hopefully, he'll start rolling out some more Trac integration soon.
>>
> 
> 
> Yes, that would have been nice. Sadly, it seems the trac project has decided to delay Brads additions until the 1.0 release, and 0.9 isn't out yet and have taken ages. Maybe he'll roll a customized version, but that'll hamper future upgrades.
> 
> Lars Ivar Igesund
> 

Good news on the Trac front... Within the past couple of weeks, the Postgresql code has been updated to use a more 'maintained' python-postgresql driver and a beta of a web-admin module has made its way into a development branch.

It seems this shifts the focus to my time in getting Trac to fit with the rest of the dsource site.  I'm currently working on an NFL King of the Hill site, but after that dies down, dsource and Trac may get some much needed loving.

BA