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April 04, 2006
Re: not operator operator..
S. Chancellor wrote:

> I didn't say I wanted to program in AppleScript. :P  I hate mixing 
> symbols and words.  This is terrible.  I'd rather redefine all the equal 
> set and comparison operators.  The whole point of the is-operator is 
> equivalence, unfortunately there's no triple bar symbol.

Sure there is. ≡ in Unicode (\u2261), or === in plain ASCII.
It's just that it was removed from the language in DMD 0.126 ?

But I don't really see the point of bringing the old thread up ?
It's even more futile than the whole "Boolean wars" thing was...


If you don't like !is, then !do use it ? I don't think it'll change.
It's just a kludge to fill a place for the "TOKnotidentity" token.

*I* hate the ireal and creal types, but those are staying as well...
Is it important enough to choose another language for ? Not to me.

Then again I cheated, by just going back to the bad old C syntax.
Just like you, I don't think I would have liked the "!is" either.
--anders


PS. My own suggestion was ~is, which works the same as ~this does.
    Was slightly more readable, but still a bit hard on the brain.
April 04, 2006
Re: not operator operator..
Derek Parnell wrote:

> A language that I use daily (Progress 4GL) not only has the standard
> operators defined in terms of symbol characters etc... is also has them
> defined as ...
> 
>  eq
>  ne

This could work for "is" and "not is" too,
just that it would end up as being Python ?

I don't mean "is not" here,
but http://tinyurl.com/nsm5u ;-)

--anders
April 04, 2006
Re: not operator operator..
> D !is BASIC

Hehe.

I personally prefer the !is syntax .



kris wrote:
> S. Chancellor wrote:
> 
>> I really really hate the !in, !is syntax.   I think a lot of other 
>> people do too. I propose that the word not, become an operator on 
>> operators.  For example:
>>
>> Foo not is null
>> Foo not in Bar
>>
>> This not keyword will only function when it is part of these expressions:
>>
>> EqualExpression
>> RelExpression
>> InExpression
>>
>> As a consequence the following would be valid:
>>
>> Foo not == Bar
>> Foo not <= Bar
> 
> 
> 
> D !is BASIC
> 
> ;-)
April 04, 2006
Re: not operator operator..
Derek Parnell wrote:
> On Tue, 4 Apr 2006 01:59:59 -0400, Jarrett Billingsley wrote:
> 
>> Terseness is both a curse and a blessing of C-style syntax...
> 
> A language that I use daily (Progress 4GL) not only has the standard
> operators defined in terms of symbol characters etc... is also has them
> defined as ...
> 
>  eq
>  ne
>  gt
>  lt
>  ge
>  le
> 
> so one can write code such as 
> 
>    for each Customer where balance gt 1000
> 
Eewww..

-- 
Bruno Medeiros - CS/E student
http://www.prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?BrunoMedeiros#D
April 04, 2006
Re: not operator operator..
"S. Chancellor" <dnewsgr@mephit.kicks-ass.org> wrote in message 
news:e0trg6$11dp$4@digitaldaemon.com...
> !is is pretty hard to read to me.  I hate having the ! next to the i.

It's easy to read for me.  And for most people, apparently, considering that 
there hasn't been a topic on the issue since !is was implemented.
April 04, 2006
Re: not operator operator..
On Tue, 4 Apr 2006 06:03:39 -0700, S. Chancellor  
<dnewsgr@mephit.kicks-ass.org> wrote:
> On 2006-04-03 22:24:39 -0700, "Regan Heath" <regan@netwin.co.nz> said:
>
>> On Mon, 3 Apr 2006 20:34:24 -0700, S. Chancellor   
>> <dnewsgr@mephit.kicks-ass.org> wrote:
>>> I really really hate the !in, !is syntax.   I think a lot of other   
>>> people do too.
>>  I like !in and !is.
>>
>>> I propose that the word not, become an operator on operators.
>>  I don't like it.
>>  - It's more typing.
>> - "!" already means "not" to me (in this context).
>> - I read "!is" as "not is" and can't see an advantage to having "is  
>> not"  instead. (I don't see why it has to be correct english)
>>  Regan
>
> !is is ugly and hard to read

I disagree on both points.

> code is supposed to be beautiful.

code is not supposed to be english, it's supposed to be code.
code _is_ beautiful, english is not.

Regan
April 04, 2006
Re: not operator operator..
On Tue, 4 Apr 2006 06:13:23 -0700, S. Chancellor  
<dnewsgr@mephit.kicks-ass.org> wrote:
> Not to mention that i's and !'s should never be next to each other:
>
> !i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i

What font are you using, the above is perfectly clear to me, ! and i look  
very different in my font (which I assume is times new roman - cos I have  
no option to change it here in Opera - that a quick search found, anyway).

Regan
April 04, 2006
Re: not operator operator..
On Wed, 05 Apr 2006 07:37:44 +1000, Regan Heath <regan@netwin.co.nz> wrote:

> On Tue, 4 Apr 2006 06:03:39 -0700, S. Chancellor  
> <dnewsgr@mephit.kicks-ass.org> wrote:

>> !is is ugly and hard to read
>
> I disagree on both points.

I disagree with Regan and agree with S.

>> code is supposed to be beautiful.
>
> code is not supposed to be english, it's supposed to be code.
> code _is_ beautiful, english is not.

While that may be true, code is also meant to be easy to read by humans.  
My opinion is that keywords that are a combination of letters and symbols  
are contrary to human reading expectations and thus these decrease  
legibility. To overcome this, people need time to become accustomed to  
them before reading code for them becomes easier.

My guess is that most people who first come to read D code that contains  
"!is" will have a momentary pause, but after a few repetitions will see it  
as no more 'confusing' than seeing "e.g." in standard English text.

-- 
Derek Parnell
Melbourne, Australia
April 04, 2006
Re: not operator operator..
On Wed, 05 Apr 2006 07:40:32 +1000, Regan Heath <regan@netwin.co.nz> wrote:



> I have no option to change it here in Opera - that a quick search found,  
> anyway).

Select the 'Tools' menu.
Select 'Preferences...'
Select the 'Advanced' tab.
Click on 'Fonts' in the left-hand-side panel.
Click on the Type 'Interface display e-mail'.
Click on the 'Choose' button to bring up the font dialog.


-- 
Derek Parnell
Melbourne, Australia
April 04, 2006
Re: not operator operator..
On Wed, 05 Apr 2006 08:01:57 +1000, Derek Parnell <derek@psych.ward> wrote:
> On Wed, 05 Apr 2006 07:40:32 +1000, Regan Heath <regan@netwin.co.nz>  
> wrote:
>
>
>
>> I have no option to change it here in Opera - that a quick search  
>> found, anyway).
>
> Select the 'Tools' menu.
> Select 'Preferences...'
> Select the 'Advanced' tab.
> Click on 'Fonts' in the left-hand-side panel.
> Click on the Type 'Interface display e-mail'.
> Click on the 'Choose' button to bring up the font dialog.

Ta. It's "Courier New" then.
Regan
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