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April 29, 2006
Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: GNU-D opens up shop
An odd statement, since GNU has nothing to do with Apache or Firefox.  
Linux does use the GNU license, and the OS's that build on top of the 
kernel use a ton of GNU tools, which are important, sure.  But let's try 
to leave religious debates (licenses, editors, etc) out of this, they're 
counter productive.

What D needs is people to _do_ stuff, not just talk about.  Work together 
to improve what exists.  Don't fork off and start new, competing, projects 
and websites.  Find something that exists already and improve upon it.  
If something that needs to exist but doesn't, sure, start something new.

We don't need yet another wiki site.  We don't need yet another project 
repository.  We do need people contributing to both.  If you have issues 
with how a part of the community is running, let's work to improve it.

So, wanna help?  Do something, but do it constructively.

Later,
Brad

On Sat, 29 Apr 2006, Boris Wang wrote:

> Without GNU, Without the miracle of Linux, Apache, Firefox.
> 
> We need a miracle of D, and GNU can make it.
> 
> 
> "Hasan Aljudy" <hasan.aljudy@gmail.com> 
> ??????:e2u4ob$v42$1@digitaldaemon.com...
> > I'm not a big fan of GNU, and I don't think that GNU-izing D is for the 
> > best interest of the language.
> > Let's be realistic: For D to succeed, it has to be used for commercial 
> > projects. The big guys in the market must embrace it.
> >
> 
>
April 29, 2006
Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: GNU-D opens up shop
Boris Wang wrote:
> Without GNU, Without the miracle of Linux, Apache, Firefox.
> 
> We need a miracle of D, and GNU can make it.
> 
> 
> "Hasan Aljudy" <hasan.aljudy@gmail.com> 
> ??????:e2u4ob$v42$1@digitaldaemon.com...
> 
>>I'm not a big fan of GNU, and I don't think that GNU-izing D is for the 
>>best interest of the language.
>>Let's be realistic: For D to succeed, it has to be used for commercial 
>>projects. The big guys in the market must embrace it.
>>

Perhaps I didn't understand that correctly, but GNU will not bring along 
a miracle ... it's a freaking license, for bobs sake.

Willing contributors are what make a difference. Have you contributed 
anything significant to D? How about the "gabe" person? Anything there?

All this fuss over a viral license, when those currently writing vast 
quantities of useful D libs are making everything completely open?

What on earth is the point to this thread? GNU saves the day? Stallman 
saves my Sister?

If you want to get something organized, you're probably gonna need some 
respect first. Not some mojo from a book "gabe" just read.

Again, you might consider helping out at dsource instead. Last time I 
looked, there were no entrace fees
April 29, 2006
Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: GNU-D opens up shop
Boris Wang wrote:

Ah, "Boris" and "Gabe" are the same person ;)
April 29, 2006
Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: GNU-D opens up shop
Yes, the license is not most important. The most import is the that many 
professional developers
can take part in, improving the compiler and library, and not only a 
watcher.

And now, Walter is an "autarch", the others just suggest, suggest, suggest, 
and the result nobody known.

May be Brad, you can

-------------------------
I'm not a expert of D, and even a newbie on development of windows.


"Brad Roberts" <braddr@puremagic.com> 
??????:Pine.LNX.4.64.0604281914330.2422@bellevue.puremagic.com...
> An odd statement, since GNU has nothing to do with Apache or Firefox.
> Linux does use the GNU license, and the OS's that build on top of the
> kernel use a ton of GNU tools, which are important, sure.  But let's try
> to leave religious debates (licenses, editors, etc) out of this, they're
> counter productive.
>
> What D needs is people to _do_ stuff, not just talk about.  Work together
> to improve what exists.  Don't fork off and start new, competing, projects
> and websites.  Find something that exists already and improve upon it.
> If something that needs to exist but doesn't, sure, start something new.
>
> We don't need yet another wiki site.  We don't need yet another project
> repository.  We do need people contributing to both.  If you have issues
> with how a part of the community is running, let's work to improve it.
>
> So, wanna help?  Do something, but do it constructively.
>
> Later,
> Brad
>
> On Sat, 29 Apr 2006, Boris Wang wrote:
>
>> Without GNU, Without the miracle of Linux, Apache, Firefox.
>>
>> We need a miracle of D, and GNU can make it.
>>
>>
>> "Hasan Aljudy" <hasan.aljudy@gmail.com>
>> ??????:e2u4ob$v42$1@digitaldaemon.com...
>> > I'm not a big fan of GNU, and I don't think that GNU-izing D is for the
>> > best interest of the language.
>> > Let's be realistic: For D to succeed, it has to be used for commercial
>> > projects. The big guys in the market must embrace it.
>> >
>>
>>
April 29, 2006
Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: GNU-D opens up shop
May be.

I'm from china, who are Gabe? :)


"kris" <foo@bar.com> ??????:e2uj4p$1fq7$1@digitaldaemon.com...
> Boris Wang wrote:
>
> Ah, "Boris" and "Gabe" are the same person ;)
April 29, 2006
Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: GNU-D opens up shop
Gabe McArthur wrote:
> You may remember me from another post I made a couple of days ago on the main D
> thread site, regarding the state of the libraries and the focus of the language.
> I read your responses -- some were positive, others less so -- and I sat around
> and thought carefully about what everyone had to say.  I was concerned that I
> had really made myself look like a fool, but then I thought, if you don't risk
> looking like a fool, then you haven't really tried to do anything.  I was also
> afraid that I had put people off by my (perhaps overly) stringent critiques, or
> that people wouldn't be interested in joining a group devoted to the ideals of
> the GNU.  But, as I was reading through the internet on the differenes between
> 'free' and 'open-source' software, I came across an article by Richard Stallman
> at http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/opensources/book/stallman.html.  From reading
> that article, I've come to the conclusion that somebody needs to step up to the
> plate and provide those of us in the community who like D, a place to organize
> and develop free solutions to D's problems.  I thought that I might be one of
> the first of those people.
> 
> So, here it is!  I've created the basic (and quite ugly) site for the new
> gnu-d.org site.  I hope to have a lot of people participating in this new
> movement, so I'll be creating Wikis, Trac sites for GNU-D projects (including
> the GDC, I think), SVN annonymous access for checkouts, customizable project
> homepages, etc.  As people become involved, of course, they will be given
> check-in/versioning rights to repositories and management over their own project
> sites.  I will be putting up a wiki in the next couple of days outlining what I
> feel our first steps should be.  For instance, as to the issue of liscenses, I
> think it best to use the LGPL for the majority of our libraries and the GPL for
> our main projects (gdc, a build mechanism, an IDE).
> 
> If you have something that you'd like to email me about, please do so: gnu.for.d
> AT gmail.com.  I look forward to working with the community to make building,
> maintaining, and working with D a joy that everyone can share in.
> 
> 'If you organize it...they will come'
> 
> Salud!
> Gabe McArthur
> 
> 

I think we can reasonably say... TROLL ALERT. Everyone, for Bob's sake, 
just go to www.dsource.org, pick a project or start your own, and get to 
work.
April 29, 2006
Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: GNU-D opens up shop
Kyle Furlong wrote:
> I think we can reasonably say... TROLL ALERT. Everyone, for Bob's sake, 
> just go to www.dsource.org, pick a project or start your own, and get to 
> work.

Gabe isn't a troll. I've never known a troll to purchase a domain name 
and set up a web site on it for that purpose: http://www.gnu-d.org

I do think he's enthusiastic, and that's great! It's good for any 
community to have enthusiastic new members with ideas, especially if 
those ideas are disruptive. We should always be ready to reexamine our 
assumptions about what we're doing to make sure we're not deluding 
ourselves or overlooking the obvious.

For example, Gabe believes there is something wrong with the licensing 
for D, something that the GPL or LGPL would fix. I don't understand 
this, as the front end is GPL, gdc is fully GPL, and Phobos is either 
public domain or a far less restrictive license than even LGPL. I saw a 
similar comment on Digg. So something is giving the impression that D 
has a restrictive license.

I want to find out what that is, and fix it.

He's proposed establishing a wiki for D. There are already several 
(listed on http://www.digitalmars.com/d/dlinks.html). If those are 
inadequate, I want to know why.

I think he's overlooked Dsource. That's probably my fault, as the link 
to it is buried. I've now put a link to it on the front page.

Some of his comments are spot on, like the documentation being not good 
enough.

Gabe can be a valuable contributor. I hope he sticks around and helps 
out where his interests lead him.
April 29, 2006
Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: GNU-D opens up shop
Brad Roberts schrieb am 2006-04-29:
> What D needs is people to _do_ stuff, not just talk about.

<snip>

> So, wanna help?  Do something, but do it constructively.

German proverb:
"Es gibt nichts Gutes, ausser man tut es."

Thomas
April 29, 2006
dsource gets a little star
Walter Bright wrote:
[snip]
> I think he's overlooked Dsource. That's probably my fault, as the link 
> to it is buried. I've now put a link to it on the front page.

At long last :)
April 29, 2006
Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: GNU-D opens up shop
Walter Bright wrote:
> Kyle Furlong wrote:
>> I think we can reasonably say... TROLL ALERT. Everyone, for Bob's 
>> sake, just go to www.dsource.org, pick a project or start your own, 
>> and get to work.
> 
> Gabe isn't a troll. I've never known a troll to purchase a domain name 
> and set up a web site on it for that purpose: http://www.gnu-d.org
> 
> I do think he's enthusiastic, and that's great! It's good for any 
> community to have enthusiastic new members with ideas, especially if 
> those ideas are disruptive. We should always be ready to reexamine our 
> assumptions about what we're doing to make sure we're not deluding 
> ourselves or overlooking the obvious.
> 
> For example, Gabe believes there is something wrong with the licensing 
> for D, something that the GPL or LGPL would fix. I don't understand 
> this, as the front end is GPL, gdc is fully GPL, and Phobos is either 
> public domain or a far less restrictive license than even LGPL. I saw a 
> similar comment on Digg. So something is giving the impression that D 
> has a restrictive license.
> 
> I want to find out what that is, and fix it.
> 
> He's proposed establishing a wiki for D. There are already several 
> (listed on http://www.digitalmars.com/d/dlinks.html). If those are 
> inadequate, I want to know why.
> 
> I think he's overlooked Dsource. That's probably my fault, as the link 
> to it is buried. I've now put a link to it on the front page.
> 
> Some of his comments are spot on, like the documentation being not good 
> enough.
> 
> Gabe can be a valuable contributor. I hope he sticks around and helps 
> out where his interests lead him.

You are right, I was premature with the troll accusation.
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