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May 04, 2006
Re: Image format libraries, raytracers and stuff
Stewart Gordon wrote:
> Jarrett Billingsley wrote:
> 
>> "Stewart Gordon" <smjg_1998@yahoo.com> wrote in message 
>> news:e3a2ue$1v58$1@digitaldaemon.com...
>>
>>> 2. The distribution contains .obj files that obviously aren't 
>>> compiler object files, which is what almost every MS-DOS or Windows 
>>> programmer is used to the extension meaning.
>>
>>
>> And which almost every 3D artist knows is the Wavefront OBJ format, 
>> one of the most ubiquitous mesh interchange formats out there ;)
> 
> 
> Just looked it up
> 
> http://www.dcs.ed.ac.uk/home/mxr/gfx/3d/OBJ.spec
> 
> Hmm....
> 
> And I see the other WaveFront format is .mod, which is what the Fortrash 
> compilers I've used use for module information files.
> 

.MOD to me means an Amiga multi-track music sequence file.  Hey, even 
DOC used to mean plain-text document back in DOS.

...and what's so bad about Fortran (if I assume correctly that Fortrash 
is derived from)?

>>> 3. It requires OpenGL.  OTOH, I'm going for something more 
>>> self-contained.
>>
>>
>> As if OpenGL isn't supported on, well, everything?
> 
> Good question.  But how many OSs come with OpenGL installed as standard?
> 

Quite a few of them, actually.  Windows ships with OpenGL 1.1 
implementation and headers.  Linux also has native support for OpenGL, 
depending on your graphics hardware.  Solaris, of course... Probably the 
*BSD variants too, but I'm not sure.

> If the purpose is to write your own renderer, then what part does OpenGL 
> play anyway?  It's got me pondering over where Sol's own code ends and 
> OpenGL begins.
> 
> Stewart.
> 

OpenGL plays the part of allowing hardware-level interaction with the 
software renderer.  It is a portable gateway between the application and 
the graphics hardware drivers.  You can use it to any extent you like, 
taking full advantage of its full 3D rendering capabilities or simply 
just using it as a rasterizer and blitting images onto the screen.

I'll have to take a look at Sol to see how it uses OpenGL.

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James Dunne
May 04, 2006
Re: Image format libraries, raytracers and stuff
James Dunne wrote:
> Stewart Gordon wrote:
<snip>
>> And I see the other WaveFront format is .mod, which is what the 
>> Fortrash compilers I've used use for module information files.
> 
> .MOD to me means an Amiga multi-track music sequence file. 

That reminds me.  OUAT there was a sound card that included in its 
bundled Windows software a program called Modus, which IIRC played .mod 
files.

> Hey, even DOC used to mean plain-text document back in DOS.

And some programs would even use filename extensions that are already 
used by programs that ship with the OS on which they run.  For example, 
IIRC Windows Paint, Freelance Graphics and Paint Shop Pro all use .pal 
for their palette files, but they're different file formats.  And 
wxCLIPS uses .clp even in its Windows version, whereas .clp is also a 
Windows clipboard image.

Also, some filename extensions are deliberately chosen to confuse.  For 
example, see

http://esoteric.sange.fi/orphaned/bak/

> ...and what's so bad about Fortran (if I assume correctly that Fortrash 
> is derived from)?
<snip>

I guess it just doesn't have all the power of D I'm used to.

OK, so built-in vector arithmetic is one of the few good things about it....

Stewart.

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My e-mail is valid but not my primary mailbox.  Please keep replies on 
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May 04, 2006
Re: Image format libraries, raytracers and stuff
"Stewart Gordon" <smjg_1998@yahoo.com> wrote in message 
news:e3csov$14a3$1@digitaldaemon.com...
> Hmm....
>
> And I see the other WaveFront format is .mod, which is what the Fortrash 
> compilers I've used use for module information files.

I guess when you've got alphanum characters, you can't do much ;)  Of 
course, there's no real restriction on file extension length, just more of 
an unwritten agreement that they should be three (or maybe, _maybe_ four) 
letters long.  Of course, Visual Studio just leaves this rule in the dust 
with its *.vcproj and such..

> If the purpose is to write your own renderer, then what part does OpenGL 
> play anyway?

Good point.  But like James said, it might use it do just display the final 
result or something.
May 05, 2006
Re: Image format libraries, raytracers and stuff
Stewart Gordon wrote:
> James Dunne wrote:
> 
>> Stewart Gordon wrote:
> 
> <snip>
> 
>>> And I see the other WaveFront format is .mod, which is what the 
>>> Fortrash compilers I've used use for module information files.
>>
>>
>> .MOD to me means an Amiga multi-track music sequence file. 
> 
> 
> That reminds me.  OUAT there was a sound card that included in its 
> bundled Windows software a program called Modus, which IIRC played .mod 
> files.
> 
>> Hey, even DOC used to mean plain-text document back in DOS.
> 
> 
> And some programs would even use filename extensions that are already 
> used by programs that ship with the OS on which they run.  For example, 
> IIRC Windows Paint, Freelance Graphics and Paint Shop Pro all use .pal 
> for their palette files, but they're different file formats.  And 
> wxCLIPS uses .clp even in its Windows version, whereas .clp is also a 
> Windows clipboard image.
> 
> Also, some filename extensions are deliberately chosen to confuse.  For 
> example, see
> 
> http://esoteric.sange.fi/orphaned/bak/
> 
>> ...and what's so bad about Fortran (if I assume correctly that 
>> Fortrash is derived from)?
> 
> <snip>
> 
> I guess it just doesn't have all the power of D I'm used to.
> 
> OK, so built-in vector arithmetic is one of the few good things about 
> it....
> 
> Stewart.
> 

Well, one can hardly blame Fortran for its age now... Still, it has its 
uses; and that is for people who aren't necessarily programmers by 
nature.  For instance, those in engineering and physics fields find it a 
very powerful language in which to express complicated mathematical models.

However, built-in vector arithmetic is something D would certainly 
enjoy, especially in the context of multimedia development!  Intrinsics 
anyone?

-- 
Regards,
James Dunne
May 05, 2006
Fortran and stuff (was: Image format libraries, raytracers and stuff)
James Dunne wrote:
<snip>
> Well, one can hardly blame Fortran for its age now... Still, it has its 
> uses; and that is for people who aren't necessarily programmers by 
> nature.  For instance, those in engineering and physics fields find it a 
> very powerful language in which to express complicated mathematical models.

I've seen statements to the contrary.

http://www.fortranstatement.com/cgi-bin/petition.pl

"Scientists of all domains struggle to stay current in their own fields, 
and the notion that they must also master the arcane concepts of a 700 
page reference from another science entirely is neither practical nor 
appropriate."

And I'm still curious about what was going on in the brain of F90's 
inventor when he/she/it decided to keep such things as a hard limit on 
line lengths.

> However, built-in vector arithmetic is something D would certainly 
> enjoy, especially in the context of multimedia development!  Intrinsics 
> anyone?

Walter intended including it in D, but then withdrew it.  But see

http://www.digitalmars.com/d/archives/digitalmars/D/16647.html

I *believe* it'll be back after 1.0 is out.

I reckon D could one day supersede Fortran....

Stewart.

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My e-mail is valid but not my primary mailbox.  Please keep replies on 
the 'group where everyone may benefit.
May 05, 2006
[OT] Lengths of filename extensions (was: Image format libraries, raytracers and stuff)
Jarrett Billingsley wrote:
> "Stewart Gordon" <smjg_1998@yahoo.com> wrote in message 
> news:e3csov$14a3$1@digitaldaemon.com...
>> Hmm....
>>
>> And I see the other WaveFront format is .mod, which is what the Fortrash 
>> compilers I've used use for module information files.
> 
> I guess when you've got alphanum characters, you can't do much ;)  Of 
> course, there's no real restriction on file extension length, just more of 
> an unwritten agreement that they should be three (or maybe, _maybe_ four) 
> letters long.
<snip>

The three-character 'rule' is a legacy from MS-DOS/Win16 days.  .html 
seems to be by far the best-known extension that's longer.  This was 
back when Win3.1 was in common use, but I guess they got away with it 
considering that a lot of web servers are Unix-based.  And of course 
somebody invented .htm to cater for web developers using these older 
systems (not to mention HTML pages distributed on disks of some kind).

Do the latest versions of FP still default to .htm?  I suppose it fits 
in with M$'s outrageous efforts to turn the WWW from a standard medium 
to a proprietary one.  FTM, see

http://toastytech.com/evil/onlyie.html

Hang on ... I've just thought.  Maybe they've done one good deed: taking 
.htm as the extension for M$HTML, and letting HTML keep .html.  :-)

Another four-letter extension that comes to mind is .jpeg, yet .jpg is 
still much more common.

> Of course, Visual Studio just leaves this rule in the dust with its 
> *.vcproj and such..

So does D with its *.d.  It seems a lot of programming languages use 
one-letter extensions.  I can think of .b, .c, .f and .i OTTOMH....

And Apple Project Builder uses .pbproj.  Coincidence?

Stewart.

-- 
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------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

My e-mail is valid but not my primary mailbox.  Please keep replies on 
the 'group where everyone may benefit.
May 05, 2006
Re: Image format libraries, raytracers and stuff
Jarrett Billingsley wrote:
> "Stewart Gordon" <smjg_1998@yahoo.com> wrote in message 
> news:e3csov$14a3$1@digitaldaemon.com...
> 
>>Hmm....
>>
>>And I see the other WaveFront format is .mod, which is what the Fortrash 
>>compilers I've used use for module information files.
> 
> 
> I guess when you've got alphanum characters, you can't do much ;)  Of 
> course, there's no real restriction on file extension length, just more of 
> an unwritten agreement that they should be three (or maybe, _maybe_ four) 
> letters long.  Of course, Visual Studio just leaves this rule in the dust 
> with its *.vcproj and such..
> 
> 
>>If the purpose is to write your own renderer, then what part does OpenGL 
>>play anyway?
> 
> 
> Good point.  But like James said, it might use it do just display the final 
> result or something. 
> 
> 

I've checked the source and yes, OpenGL is used only for blitting the 
final raytraced image onto the screen.  GLUT is used for keyboard 
bindings (and optionally mouse functionality but it looks to be disabled 
in the code) and event handling.

-- 
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M--@ V? PS PE Y+ PGP- t+ 5 X+ !R tv-->!tv b- DI++(+) D++ G e++>e 
h>--->++ r+++ y+++
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James Dunne
May 11, 2006
Re: Image format libraries, raytracers and stuff
For those who are interested, I've uploaded a preliminary version of D3 to

http://pr.stewartsplace.org.uk/d/d3.zip

So far, the only output format I've implemented is a raw bitmap file. 
And I've only tested it under Windows, but it should work under any 
platform.

As I say, it's only preliminary, so just about any aspect of the API is 
subject to change!

And I've had to work around this:

http://d.puremagic.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=85

Stewart.

-- 
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PE- Y? PGP- t- 5? X? R b DI? D G e++++ h-- r-- !y
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

My e-mail is valid but not my primary mailbox.  Please keep replies on 
the 'group where everyone may benefit.
June 16, 2006
Re: Image format libraries, raytracers and stuff
In article <e3vra2$1trl$1@digitaldaemon.com>, Stewart Gordon says...
>
>For those who are interested, I've uploaded a preliminary version of D3 to
>
>http://pr.stewartsplace.org.uk/d/d3.zip
>
>So far, the only output format I've implemented is a raw bitmap file. 
>And I've only tested it under Windows, but it should work under any 
>platform.
>
>As I say, it's only preliminary, so just about any aspect of the API is 
>subject to change!
>
>And I've had to work around this:
>
>http://d.puremagic.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=85
>
>Stewart.
>
>-- 
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>------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
>
>My e-mail is valid but not my primary mailbox.  Please keep replies on 
>the 'group where everyone may benefit.

Hey,
I just noticed this thread today, because I've finally had some time to spend on
Sol the last few days.  If any of you are using Sol or if you're interested in
contributing to it, let me know.  The ability to save the produced images (with
a possible option of never displaying them at all, as mentioned above) would be
a great addition.  As would uncommenting the mouse-look code and making sure
that works.  Anyways, I have lots of ideas and goals for the project.  Let me
know if you have any ideas or questions.

Thanks,
David Shoemaker
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