May 04, 2006
Stewart Gordon wrote:
> Jarrett Billingsley wrote:
> 
>> "Stewart Gordon" <smjg_1998@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:e3a2ue$1v58$1@digitaldaemon.com...
>>
>>> 2. The distribution contains .obj files that obviously aren't compiler object files, which is what almost every MS-DOS or Windows programmer is used to the extension meaning.
>>
>>
>> And which almost every 3D artist knows is the Wavefront OBJ format, one of the most ubiquitous mesh interchange formats out there ;)
> 
> 
> Just looked it up
> 
> http://www.dcs.ed.ac.uk/home/mxr/gfx/3d/OBJ.spec
> 
> Hmm....
> 
> And I see the other WaveFront format is .mod, which is what the Fortrash compilers I've used use for module information files.
> 

.MOD to me means an Amiga multi-track music sequence file.  Hey, even DOC used to mean plain-text document back in DOS.

...and what's so bad about Fortran (if I assume correctly that Fortrash is derived from)?

>>> 3. It requires OpenGL.  OTOH, I'm going for something more self-contained.
>>
>>
>> As if OpenGL isn't supported on, well, everything?
> 
> Good question.  But how many OSs come with OpenGL installed as standard?
> 

Quite a few of them, actually.  Windows ships with OpenGL 1.1 implementation and headers.  Linux also has native support for OpenGL, depending on your graphics hardware.  Solaris, of course... Probably the *BSD variants too, but I'm not sure.

> If the purpose is to write your own renderer, then what part does OpenGL play anyway?  It's got me pondering over where Sol's own code ends and OpenGL begins.
> 
> Stewart.
> 

OpenGL plays the part of allowing hardware-level interaction with the software renderer.  It is a portable gateway between the application and the graphics hardware drivers.  You can use it to any extent you like, taking full advantage of its full 3D rendering capabilities or simply just using it as a rasterizer and blitting images onto the screen.

I'll have to take a look at Sol to see how it uses OpenGL.

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James Dunne
May 04, 2006
James Dunne wrote:
> Stewart Gordon wrote:
<snip>
>> And I see the other WaveFront format is .mod, which is what the Fortrash compilers I've used use for module information files.
> 
> .MOD to me means an Amiga multi-track music sequence file. 

That reminds me.  OUAT there was a sound card that included in its bundled Windows software a program called Modus, which IIRC played .mod files.

> Hey, even DOC used to mean plain-text document back in DOS.

And some programs would even use filename extensions that are already used by programs that ship with the OS on which they run.  For example, IIRC Windows Paint, Freelance Graphics and Paint Shop Pro all use .pal for their palette files, but they're different file formats.  And wxCLIPS uses .clp even in its Windows version, whereas .clp is also a Windows clipboard image.

Also, some filename extensions are deliberately chosen to confuse.  For example, see

http://esoteric.sange.fi/orphaned/bak/

> ...and what's so bad about Fortran (if I assume correctly that Fortrash is derived from)?
<snip>

I guess it just doesn't have all the power of D I'm used to.

OK, so built-in vector arithmetic is one of the few good things about it....

Stewart.

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My e-mail is valid but not my primary mailbox.  Please keep replies on the 'group where everyone may benefit.
May 04, 2006
"Stewart Gordon" <smjg_1998@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:e3csov$14a3$1@digitaldaemon.com...
> Hmm....
>
> And I see the other WaveFront format is .mod, which is what the Fortrash compilers I've used use for module information files.

I guess when you've got alphanum characters, you can't do much ;)  Of course, there's no real restriction on file extension length, just more of an unwritten agreement that they should be three (or maybe, _maybe_ four) letters long.  Of course, Visual Studio just leaves this rule in the dust with its *.vcproj and such..

> If the purpose is to write your own renderer, then what part does OpenGL play anyway?

Good point.  But like James said, it might use it do just display the final result or something.


May 05, 2006
Stewart Gordon wrote:
> James Dunne wrote:
> 
>> Stewart Gordon wrote:
> 
> <snip>
> 
>>> And I see the other WaveFront format is .mod, which is what the Fortrash compilers I've used use for module information files.
>>
>>
>> .MOD to me means an Amiga multi-track music sequence file. 
> 
> 
> That reminds me.  OUAT there was a sound card that included in its bundled Windows software a program called Modus, which IIRC played .mod files.
> 
>> Hey, even DOC used to mean plain-text document back in DOS.
> 
> 
> And some programs would even use filename extensions that are already used by programs that ship with the OS on which they run.  For example, IIRC Windows Paint, Freelance Graphics and Paint Shop Pro all use .pal for their palette files, but they're different file formats.  And wxCLIPS uses .clp even in its Windows version, whereas .clp is also a Windows clipboard image.
> 
> Also, some filename extensions are deliberately chosen to confuse.  For example, see
> 
> http://esoteric.sange.fi/orphaned/bak/
> 
>> ...and what's so bad about Fortran (if I assume correctly that Fortrash is derived from)?
> 
> <snip>
> 
> I guess it just doesn't have all the power of D I'm used to.
> 
> OK, so built-in vector arithmetic is one of the few good things about it....
> 
> Stewart.
> 

Well, one can hardly blame Fortran for its age now... Still, it has its uses; and that is for people who aren't necessarily programmers by nature.  For instance, those in engineering and physics fields find it a very powerful language in which to express complicated mathematical models.

However, built-in vector arithmetic is something D would certainly enjoy, especially in the context of multimedia development!  Intrinsics anyone?

-- 
Regards,
James Dunne
May 05, 2006
James Dunne wrote:
<snip>
> Well, one can hardly blame Fortran for its age now... Still, it has its uses; and that is for people who aren't necessarily programmers by nature.  For instance, those in engineering and physics fields find it a very powerful language in which to express complicated mathematical models.

I've seen statements to the contrary.

http://www.fortranstatement.com/cgi-bin/petition.pl

"Scientists of all domains struggle to stay current in their own fields, and the notion that they must also master the arcane concepts of a 700 page reference from another science entirely is neither practical nor appropriate."

And I'm still curious about what was going on in the brain of F90's inventor when he/she/it decided to keep such things as a hard limit on line lengths.

> However, built-in vector arithmetic is something D would certainly enjoy, especially in the context of multimedia development!  Intrinsics anyone?

Walter intended including it in D, but then withdrew it.  But see

http://www.digitalmars.com/d/archives/digitalmars/D/16647.html

I *believe* it'll be back after 1.0 is out.

I reckon D could one day supersede Fortran....

Stewart.

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My e-mail is valid but not my primary mailbox.  Please keep replies on the 'group where everyone may benefit.
May 05, 2006
Jarrett Billingsley wrote:
> "Stewart Gordon" <smjg_1998@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:e3csov$14a3$1@digitaldaemon.com...
>> Hmm....
>>
>> And I see the other WaveFront format is .mod, which is what the Fortrash compilers I've used use for module information files.
> 
> I guess when you've got alphanum characters, you can't do much ;)  Of course, there's no real restriction on file extension length, just more of an unwritten agreement that they should be three (or maybe, _maybe_ four) letters long.
<snip>

The three-character 'rule' is a legacy from MS-DOS/Win16 days.  .html seems to be by far the best-known extension that's longer.  This was back when Win3.1 was in common use, but I guess they got away with it considering that a lot of web servers are Unix-based.  And of course somebody invented .htm to cater for web developers using these older systems (not to mention HTML pages distributed on disks of some kind).

Do the latest versions of FP still default to .htm?  I suppose it fits in with M$'s outrageous efforts to turn the WWW from a standard medium to a proprietary one.  FTM, see

http://toastytech.com/evil/onlyie.html

Hang on ... I've just thought.  Maybe they've done one good deed: taking .htm as the extension for M$HTML, and letting HTML keep .html.  :-)

Another four-letter extension that comes to mind is .jpeg, yet .jpg is still much more common.

> Of course, Visual Studio just leaves this rule in the dust with its *.vcproj and such..

So does D with its *.d.  It seems a lot of programming languages use one-letter extensions.  I can think of .b, .c, .f and .i OTTOMH....

And Apple Project Builder uses .pbproj.  Coincidence?

Stewart.

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------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

My e-mail is valid but not my primary mailbox.  Please keep replies on the 'group where everyone may benefit.
May 05, 2006
Jarrett Billingsley wrote:
> "Stewart Gordon" <smjg_1998@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:e3csov$14a3$1@digitaldaemon.com...
> 
>>Hmm....
>>
>>And I see the other WaveFront format is .mod, which is what the Fortrash compilers I've used use for module information files.
> 
> 
> I guess when you've got alphanum characters, you can't do much ;)  Of course, there's no real restriction on file extension length, just more of an unwritten agreement that they should be three (or maybe, _maybe_ four) letters long.  Of course, Visual Studio just leaves this rule in the dust with its *.vcproj and such..
> 
> 
>>If the purpose is to write your own renderer, then what part does OpenGL play anyway?
> 
> 
> Good point.  But like James said, it might use it do just display the final result or something. 
> 
> 

I've checked the source and yes, OpenGL is used only for blitting the final raytraced image onto the screen.  GLUT is used for keyboard bindings (and optionally mouse functionality but it looks to be disabled in the code) and event handling.

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James Dunne
May 11, 2006
For those who are interested, I've uploaded a preliminary version of D3 to

http://pr.stewartsplace.org.uk/d/d3.zip

So far, the only output format I've implemented is a raw bitmap file. And I've only tested it under Windows, but it should work under any platform.

As I say, it's only preliminary, so just about any aspect of the API is subject to change!

And I've had to work around this:

http://d.puremagic.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=85

Stewart.

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My e-mail is valid but not my primary mailbox.  Please keep replies on the 'group where everyone may benefit.
June 16, 2006
In article <e3vra2$1trl$1@digitaldaemon.com>, Stewart Gordon says...
>
>For those who are interested, I've uploaded a preliminary version of D3 to
>
>http://pr.stewartsplace.org.uk/d/d3.zip
>
>So far, the only output format I've implemented is a raw bitmap file. And I've only tested it under Windows, but it should work under any platform.
>
>As I say, it's only preliminary, so just about any aspect of the API is subject to change!
>
>And I've had to work around this:
>
>http://d.puremagic.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=85
>
>Stewart.
>
>-- 
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>------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
>
>My e-mail is valid but not my primary mailbox.  Please keep replies on the 'group where everyone may benefit.

Hey,
I just noticed this thread today, because I've finally had some time to spend on
Sol the last few days.  If any of you are using Sol or if you're interested in
contributing to it, let me know.  The ability to save the produced images (with
a possible option of never displaying them at all, as mentioned above) would be
a great addition.  As would uncommenting the mouse-look code and making sure
that works.  Anyways, I have lots of ideas and goals for the project.  Let me
know if you have any ideas or questions.

Thanks,
David Shoemaker


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