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May 09, 2006
Re: new domain: d-programming-language.org
Christof Boeckler wrote:
> Walter Bright schrieb:
> 
>> I've just registered it, so it can be the 'official' D site.
>>
>> 1) Why so long?
>>
>> Because "D" is un-googlable, there needs to be a reasonably unique, 
>> recognizable phrase for it. Nothing works as well as "d programming 
>> language". There's no ambiguity about what it's about. Besides, most 
>> people will get to the web site via a click, rather than typing it in.
> 
> 
> I don't care about the length: form follows function! In that 
> perspective it's a good choice! Nobody will ever type it twice, thanks 
> to bookmarks.
> 
> Go ahead Walter!
> 
> Christof

come to think of it, programmers should be used to typing alot of stuff :)
May 09, 2006
Re: new domain: d-programming-language.org
In article <e3osei$g90$1@digitaldaemon.com>, Walter Bright says...
>
>I've just registered it, so it can be the 'official' D site.
>
>1) Why so long?
>
>Because "D" is un-googlable, there needs to be a reasonably unique, 
>recognizable phrase for it. Nothing works as well as "d programming 
>language". There's no ambiguity about what it's about. Besides, most 
>people will get to the web site via a click, rather than typing it in.
>
>
>2) Why the embedded '-'?
>
>In my experiments, google doesn't separate dprogramminglanguage into 3 
>words. But it will if there are embedded '-'s.
>
>
>3) Why 'org' instead of 'com'?
>
>Because the D language itself is not a company, nor is it a proprietary 
>language. Hence, 'org' is the most appropriate for it.
>
>
>4) When will it go live?
>
>It'll take a couple days at least.

Not a bad idea.  I gather this will be an alias for digitalmars.com/d?

Personally, I don't think this will be a problem because:

1) Like you say, its imminently searchable.
2) Most browsers feature auto-complete for url's so clicking the location and
hitting 'www.d' on the keyboard will most likely complete the whole mess.
3) It'll encourage bookmarking (a good thing).

Barring cache wipes, I almost never type the entire URL for anything more than
once.  Anything else that I, or my browser, forget about I just google instead.
I'm pretty sure that I'm not alone in having use habits like these. ;)

- EricAnderton at yahoo
May 09, 2006
Re: new domain: d-programming-language.org
I took a few minutes and found a few - dlanguage, d-language, d-lang, 
d-programming, etc.

Anyway, I usually think domains with more than 12 characters in them are 
spam houses.... but that's just my initial impression - because that's 
the overwhelming majority.

When I worked on forum software, we had the domain 
www.simplemachines.org (being an organization named Simple Machines.) 
At first, searching for "Simple Machines" put us nowhere - all that came 
up were sites about levers and such.  Luckily, it's now pretty high up 
in the results.

Google really doesn't care for the domain name, because some people 
might register "sony-of-america.com" and that won't be the correct 
domain for "sony of america".

Page Rank and such are really what matter.  That comes with time, links, 
etc.  And for that, the domain could be "twoplustwoisfive.net".  It 
wouldn't matter.

Anyway, it won't really matter much I suppose if the domain name is 
long.  Most people these days use Google, autocomplete, or their 
bookmarks, as you said.

-[Unknown]


> Chris Miller wrote:
>> At the very least you could have 2 domains (or more); this one could 
>> be advertised, and the other could be the brief and pretty one for 
>> practical use.
> 
> There are no brief, pretty, available, and relevant names that I can find.
May 09, 2006
Re: new domain: d-programming-language.org
Jari-Matti Mäkelä wrote:
> Walter Bright wrote:
>> I've just registered it, so it can be the 'official' D site.
>>
> Cool.
> 
> Is it now finally possible to _officially_ list proposed language
> features before they get implemented in DMD?
<snip>

Why not use Bugzilla for this?

A lot of projects that use Bugzilla welcome feature requests through it, 
including all Mozilla projects.  It's why there's an 'enhancement' 
severity level.

Stewart.

-- 
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.1
GCS/M d- s:-@ C++@ a->--- UB@ P+ L E@ W++@ N+++ o K-@ w++@ O? M V? PS- 
PE- Y? PGP- t- 5? X? R b DI? D G e++++ h-- r-- !y
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

My e-mail is valid but not my primary mailbox.  Please keep replies on 
the 'group where everyone may benefit.
May 09, 2006
Re: new domain: d-programming-language.org
Stewart Gordon wrote:
> Jari-Matti Mäkelä wrote:
>> Walter Bright wrote:
>>> I've just registered it, so it can be the 'official' D site.
>>>
>> Cool.
>>
>> Is it now finally possible to _officially_ list proposed language
>> features before they get implemented in DMD?
> <snip>
> 
> Why not use Bugzilla for this?
> 
> A lot of projects that use Bugzilla welcome feature requests through it, 
> including all Mozilla projects.  It's why there's an 'enhancement' 
> severity level.

Walter said that it was an inappropriate forum for discussions about 
language features, and I agree with that (language features almost 
always require far more discussion than a browser feature). But I think 
it makes a lot of sense to put enhancements in Bugzilla once Walter has 
given an indication that he'll probably implement it. (I just did that 
for what I think is the only proposal I've made that falls into that 
category).
95% of proposals don't get any response from Walter, so I don't think 
they belong in Bugzilla. It might make sense to revive that Wiki page 
for them, though.

Other enhancements which seem to have been approved:
* array literals (for DMD 2.0).
* array expressions (for DMD 2.0).
* new 'auto' syntax for allocating classes on the stack.
* coroutines (for DMD 2.0)
* combining function pointers and delegates (for DMD 2.0).

Can anyone think of any more?

It might make sense to create a DMD2.0 product in Bugzilla to put those 
into.
May 09, 2006
Re: new domain: d-programming-language.org
Don Clugston wrote:
> Stewart Gordon wrote:
<snip>
>> Why not use Bugzilla for this?
>>
>> A lot of projects that use Bugzilla welcome feature requests through 
>> it, including all Mozilla projects.  It's why there's an 'enhancement' 
>> severity level.
> 
> Walter said that it was an inappropriate forum for discussions about 
> language features, and I agree with that (language features almost 
> always require far more discussion than a browser feature). But I think 
> it makes a lot of sense to put enhancements in Bugzilla once Walter has 
> given an indication that he'll probably implement it. (I just did that 
> for what I think is the only proposal I've made that falls into that 
> category).
<snip>

The whole point of Bugzilla is to be able to track the status of bugs 
and feature requests.  If the only acceptable status for feature 
requests is "accepted", then this defeats the point.

My point is that we should be able to track the status of _all_ feature 
requests, whether Walter has accepted them or not.

The simplest answer (to J-M's question at least) is to finally confer 
official status on

http://www.prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?FeatureRequestList

Stewart.

-- 
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.1
GCS/M d- s:-@ C++@ a->--- UB@ P+ L E@ W++@ N+++ o K-@ w++@ O? M V? PS- 
PE- Y? PGP- t- 5? X? R b DI? D G e++++ h-- r-- !y
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

My e-mail is valid but not my primary mailbox.  Please keep replies on 
the 'group where everyone may benefit.
May 09, 2006
Re: new domain: d-programming-language.org
Don Clugston wrote:
> Stewart Gordon wrote:
>> Jari-Matti Mäkelä wrote:
>>> Walter Bright wrote:
>>>> I've just registered it, so it can be the 'official' D site.
>>>>
>>> Cool.
>>>
>>> Is it now finally possible to _officially_ list proposed language
>>> features before they get implemented in DMD?
>> <snip>
>>
>> Why not use Bugzilla for this?
>>
>> A lot of projects that use Bugzilla welcome feature requests through
>> it, including all Mozilla projects.  It's why there's an 'enhancement'
>> severity level.
> 
> Walter said that it was an inappropriate forum for discussions about
> language features, and I agree with that (language features almost
> always require far more discussion than a browser feature). But I think
> it makes a lot of sense to put enhancements in Bugzilla once Walter has
> given an indication that he'll probably implement it. (I just did that
> for what I think is the only proposal I've made that falls into that
> category).
> 95% of proposals don't get any response from Walter, so I don't think
> they belong in Bugzilla. It might make sense to revive that Wiki page
> for them, though.
> 
> Other enhancements which seem to have been approved:
> * array literals (for DMD 2.0).
> * array expressions (for DMD 2.0).
> * new 'auto' syntax for allocating classes on the stack.
> * coroutines (for DMD 2.0)
> * combining function pointers and delegates (for DMD 2.0).
> 
> Can anyone think of any more?
> 
> It might make sense to create a DMD2.0 product in Bugzilla to put those
> into.

What I meant was that why doesn't Walter want to document approved
future language features before implementing them. It would be a lot
easier for other frontend writers to create patches / own
implementations if there was some documentary in the first place. Walter
could even tag them with something like "[not implemented yet, will be
implemented in DMD 1.5 or 2.0]". The Future-link in digitalmars-site is
badly outdated and inadequate. The bugzilla isn't good for describing
the syntax or features in a verbose manner.

I know there are proposals in bugzilla and in the newsgroups. The
problem is that these are not official in any way. We don't know, what
would the final implementation be. I bet it would accelerate the
development of D as a language if there were some centralized guidelines
somewhere. It would also eliminate some missteps like builtin regexps or
bit arrays if we could see them syntactically before they are in the
"production" version. I don't know how Walter sees this, but IMHO
writing few pages of text in a natural language is a lot less time
consuming than writing them as a code to the compiler. And you have to
write those damn docs anyway sooner or later.

-- 
Jari-Matti
May 09, 2006
Re: new domain: d-programming-language.org
Stewart Gordon wrote:
> Don Clugston wrote:
>> Stewart Gordon wrote:
> <snip>
>>> Why not use Bugzilla for this?
>>>
>>> A lot of projects that use Bugzilla welcome feature requests through
>>> it, including all Mozilla projects.  It's why there's an
>>> 'enhancement' severity level.
>>
>> Walter said that it was an inappropriate forum for discussions about
>> language features, and I agree with that (language features almost
>> always require far more discussion than a browser feature). But I
>> think it makes a lot of sense to put enhancements in Bugzilla once
>> Walter has given an indication that he'll probably implement it. (I
>> just did that for what I think is the only proposal I've made that
>> falls into that category).
> <snip>
> 
> The whole point of Bugzilla is to be able to track the status of bugs
> and feature requests.  If the only acceptable status for feature
> requests is "accepted", then this defeats the point.
> 
> My point is that we should be able to track the status of _all_ feature
> requests, whether Walter has accepted them or not.
> 
> The simplest answer (to J-M's question at least) is to finally confer
> official status on
> 
> http://www.prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?FeatureRequestList

Yes, that would help a lot. A logical next step would be to create a
short official syntax & description page for all approved features. Then
we (well, at least the most talented ones - not me :) could help develop
these things so that Walter could concentrate on the more important
matters. At least coding the proposed library code is relatively trivial
compared to the advanced compiler techniques and partly done in some 3rd
party projects.

-- 
Jari-Matti
May 09, 2006
Re: new domain: d-programming-language.org
In article <e3qf2b$2s5m$1@digitaldaemon.com>, Stewart Gordon says...
>
>Don Clugston wrote:
>> Stewart Gordon wrote:
><snip>
>>> Why not use Bugzilla for this?
>>>
>>> A lot of projects that use Bugzilla welcome feature requests through 
>>> it, including all Mozilla projects.  It's why there's an 'enhancement' 
>>> severity level.
>> 
>> Walter said that it was an inappropriate forum for discussions about 
>> language features, and I agree with that (language features almost 
>> always require far more discussion than a browser feature). But I think 
>> it makes a lot of sense to put enhancements in Bugzilla once Walter has 
>> given an indication that he'll probably implement it. (I just did that 
>> for what I think is the only proposal I've made that falls into that 
>> category).
><snip>
>
>The whole point of Bugzilla is to be able to track the status of bugs 
>and feature requests.  If the only acceptable status for feature 
>requests is "accepted", then this defeats the point.
>
>My point is that we should be able to track the status of _all_ feature 
>requests, whether Walter has accepted them or not.

Walter did ask us not to put feature requests into Bugzilla:
"Please don't add feature requests to the bug list."
http://www.digitalmars.com/drn-bin/wwwnews?digitalmars.D.bugs/6933

And it took us long enough to wear him down on the benefits of using Bugzilla
for bugs, so I think we should be grateful for what we have in that department.

>The simplest answer (to J-M's question at least) is to finally confer 
>official status on
>
>http://www.prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?FeatureRequestList

I think wiki pages can do a good job for tracking and discussing feature
requests (whether they're declared "official" or not).

jcc7
May 09, 2006
Re: new domain: d-programming-language.org
pragma wrote:
> Barring cache wipes, I almost never type the entire URL for anything more than
> once.  Anything else that I, or my browser, forget about I just google instead.
> I'm pretty sure that I'm not alone in having use habits like these. ;)

You're not. I even created my own home page on my local machine, with 
all the sites I regularly go to listed. Nothing is more than two clicks 
away, then!

One problem with abbreviations is it makes it harder to remember. "d 
programming language", while long, is easy to remember.
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