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September 29, 2007
Re: GUI strategy?
Op Sat, 29 Sep 2007 13:21:20 -0400
schreef Jordan Miner <jminer2613@students.pcci.edu>:

> As far as GTKD and DUI, I would never in a million years consider
> using GTK, as it looks horrible on Windows

Did you see/use the GTK-Wimp skin?

<http://gtk-wimp.sourceforge.net/screenshots/>


-- 
JanC
September 30, 2007
Re: GUI strategy?
That sounds interesting! Make it fully skinnable (so it can look like the 
native platform), and you'll have yourself a jolly audience :)

Besides, Cairo is teh shizzle ;p

Any screenshots so far?



"Jordan Miner" <jminer2613@students.pcci.edu> wrote in message 
news:fdm1ig$110n$1@digitalmars.com...
>I have been writing a GUI library from scratch in D for over a year now. Of 
>course, I would like it to become the most popular GUI for D (who 
>wouldn't?), but regardless I have had fun working on it and using it for my 
>own programs.
>
> Here is what I think about the current GUI libraries:
> My problem with DFL is that since it uses native Windows controls and 
> copies Windows Forms so much IMO it would be difficult to get working 
> right on Linux and Macintosh. Other than that, I think it works great on 
> Windows.
> As far as GTKD and DUI, I would never in a million years consider using 
> GTK, as it looks horrible on Windows (and probably Macintosh).
> Does DWT have a different API on each platform? If so, that rules it out 
> for me.
> With wxD, since wxWidgets uses native controls, it looks good on every 
> platform most of the time and already works on Windows, Linux, and 
> Macintosh. I don't really like its API, but if I were not writing my own 
> library, I would probably use wxD.
> Note that I have never used any of these libraries, but I have looked at 
> documentation and examples. And I have used programs that use their 
> underlying libraries (GTK, SWT, wxWidgets).
>
> For my library, I decided to not use native controls, partly to make it 
> easier to port and use on different platforms and partly for flexiblity. I 
> already have working Windows and X backends, and partially implemented 
> buttons, check boxes, radio buttons, list boxes, tabs, text boxes, themes, 
> file and directory dialogs, and clipboard support. For graphics, I am 
> using the cairo graphics library http://cairographics.org
>
> My biggest goal is ease of use and the ability to do tasks with the 
> shortest, simplest code. I do not want a large, bloated library, and, so 
> far, the GUI part is only about 5,000 LOC. I believe 20,000 LOC for a GUI 
> library is more than enough. (for most features, anyway. There are lots of 
> features a GUI library could have that would be nice, but not necessary, 
> such as an SVG renderer.)
>
> Bill Baxter Wrote:
>> If you're going to make THE gui for D (or any language), then you'd
>> better be prepared to embark on a 5-10 year, or perhaps even life-long
>> project.  You'll need to make frequent releases.  And you better respond
>> to people's questions.  Not just this week but for the next 5-10 years.
>>   And have a bug tracker and use it.  And treat people's patches as
>> precious, either telling them why you're rejecting them or incorporating
>> them ASAP.  And write lots of documentation and tutorials and example
>> programs demonstrating your library.
>
> I agree. All of this is important for a widely used library.
>
> I cannot see myself stopping work on this project, as I am fairly addicted 
> to using computers, and this is something that I really like doing. I do 
> work on it in my spare time and am in college, but I have still done a lot 
> in the last year. I have not released it yet, but when I do, I would like 
> to get other people involved. I still have a few things to do before I put 
> it on the internet, such as get the Windows and X backend to have the same 
> functionality, fix the naming convention, move to tango, and get a final 
> name.
> (How's Daimyo? It is short and starts with a D. 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daimyo )
>
September 30, 2007
Re: GUI strategy?
Yigal Chripun wrote:

> Tomas Lindquist Olsen wrote:
>> Yigal Chripun wrote:
>> 
>>> IMHO, you are right about NOT having a standard GUI library as part of
>>> D. however, regarding the current options we have - it not a trivial
>>> task to install any of them, in the sense that dsss net install should
>>> be all i need to start using any of them.
>>>
>> 
>> dsss net install minwin
>> 
>> 
> actually i've done just that a few days ago and while it did install it
> didn't work for me. had problems with the the imports or something like
> that. does minwin work with tango? (i prefer to use tango myself)

MinWin is currently Phobos only. I do plan to update it to work with both
libraries soon though.
October 01, 2007
Re: GUI strategy?
Bruno Medeiros wrote:
> Daniel Keep wrote:
>> Walter "blessed" DWT (I believe it was) and... it promptly died.
>>
>> Granted, we've got Tioport making excellent progress now, but I don't
>> think Walter wants to bless any particular library that he himself isn't
>> responsible for.
>>
>> As for getting the community to agree on one, good luck on that.  I
>> remember lots of threads about designing a community-standard, and no
>> one could agree on something as basic as: should it owner-draw or use
>> native widgets.  Both sides have very good, solid arguments for them.
>> And people in general have a habit of (sometimes violently) backing
>> their very good, solidly justified team. :)
>>
> 
> Nor will there ever be an agreement on those issues, just as there isn't 
> outside of the D community. It seems to be kinda like static vs. dynamic 
> languages where everyone has a favorite that more adequately suits them, 
> but no objective best one.
> Still, I think it would be reasonable to hope that at least in each 
> category, there could be a standard (as in, de facto) GUI library.

I think so too. A case I'm particularly interested in is an owner-draw control.
(an example I have in mind is a x-y chart).
I'd hope for significant code reuse, regardless of whether such a control is 
used inside a framework which use native-widget or owner-draw for the basic 
widgets. Surely we can do that.
October 02, 2007
Re: GUI strategy?
On Fri, 28 Sep 2007 20:39:54 +0300, Max Samukha
<samukha@voliacable.com.removethis> wrote:

> I'm trying to use DFL but
>it seems to be developed and maintained by one person, is Windows-only
>and very alpha. 

I was accused of badmouthing DFL and want to apologize for the
emotional 'very alpha'. It's not like that. It just lacks a couple of
useful widgets that are being developed or going to be developed and
has some issues that get fixed as soon as they are reported.
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