October 12
On Thursday, 12 October 2017 at 08:20:45 UTC, Jonathan M Davis wrote:
> I think that he meant that most of the developers for dmd and the standard library run *nix systems
Ah, you're right. I have misunderstood a bit.

October 12
On Thursday, 12 October 2017 at 03:50:31 UTC, Dennis Cote wrote:
> On Thursday, 12 October 2017 at 01:26:33 UTC, jmh530 wrote:
>>
>> You have to fetch it first if you don't already have it:
>> dub fetch dlangide
>> dub run dlangide
>>
>> Of course, you might still have an issue...
>
> I still have an issue on macOS using latest Homebrew version of dmd and dub.
>
> It seems like it builds with one deprecation warning, but fails to run.
>
> I fetched into an empty directory then run. All build and error message are in the link below:
>
> https://pastebin.com/FLQHwGXf
>
> It looks like SLD2 is missing, so I installed it via Homebrew and tried again. This time it runs but displays a window full of micro sized text and icons. It is barely readable. The link below leads to a screenshot showing the dlangide window and Dlang.org open in Safari for comparison.
>
> http://tinypic.com/r/20jiico/9
>
> Not trying to slam dlangide (in fact it looks promising), but these kind of issues, when following the instructions given, show how incomplete or untested instructions can lead new users to have a frustrating first experience with D.
>
> Dennis Cote

I've updated README on https://github.com/buggins/dlangide

"Try DlangIDE" section is added with build instructions, DMD and DUB installation, libSDL2 installation, build troubleshooting.


October 12
On Thursday, 12 October 2017 at 01:26:33 UTC, jmh530 wrote:
> On Wednesday, 11 October 2017 at 22:23:12 UTC, Rion wrote:
>> On Wednesday, 11 October 2017 at 18:29:38 UTC, qznc wrote:
>>> At least on Ubuntu, this gives me an IDE:
>>>
>>>   dub run dlangide
>>>
>>> I have not used it much and I don't know if it works on Windows, but it might be the easiest way once you installed dmd and dub.
>>
>> Windows 10:
>>
>> dub run dlangide
>> Failed to find a package named 'dlangide'.
>
> You have to fetch it first if you don't already have it:
> dub fetch dlangide
> dub run dlangide
>
> Of course, you might still have an issue...

I know but this illustrates the OP his point. Do you see a warning tell people they can need to use fetch? Its the small details that can made the experience much more nice but because everybody here is such D experts, they can not see that for a new user he will not have a clue what is going on.

D is riddled with less then friendly behavior simply because the developers are used to this and they do so from memory.

Why does it take a whole bunch of commands to make a shared library and link it. Go has it down to a simple clean command. Seen it also in other languages where is more easy. Yet D focuses on the old C++ style because the people developing D all come from this background and do not realism that there is something called user friendly.

Its everywhere over the D landscape and it makes it hard for people who are not C++/D aluminate then it needs to be. Its a missed opportunity and instead of always focusing on adding new language features, there need to be a clear period of focusing on user friendliness.


And by the way that command above on my tablet results in:

> Fetching dcd 0.9.1 (getting selected version)...
> dlangui 0.9.160: building configuration "default"...
> Error: out of memory
> dmd failed with exit code 1.

1.3GB free on a 4GB system... Out of memory really!
October 12
On Thursday, 12 October 2017 at 10:29:31 UTC, Rion wrote:
>
> I know but this illustrates the OP his point. Do you see a warning tell people they can need to use fetch? Its the small details that can made the experience much more nice but because everybody here is such D experts, they can not see that for a new user he will not have a clue what is going on.

1) The readme has been updated and in this version works for me with no problems,

2) It's pretty basic use of dub that you need to fetch first, but I'll admit that if it's an ide that someone is using for the first time, they may not be familiar with dub.

In general, there's nothing wrong with making things more user-friendly, whether that's improving the documentation or providing examples of simple tasks.


October 12
On Thursday, 12 October 2017 at 08:20:45 UTC, Jonathan M Davis wrote:
>
> But overall, I don't think that the Windows situation with D is really all that much worse than what you get on Linux. It's just that the folks running Windows have a tendency to care a ton about stuff like IDEs that the folks running *nix systems historically don't care much about. And for whatever reason, even when we do have IDE support (e.g. VisualD), it never seems to be enough for some folks.
>

I prefer not to use an IDE, but a GUI for a debugging is nice.
October 13
On Thursday, 12 October 2017 at 07:48:09 UTC, Vadim Lopatin wrote:
> Could you please submit issue on https://github.com/buggins/dlangide/issues
>

Done.

https://github.com/buggins/dlangide/issues/349
October 13
On Wednesday, 11 October 2017 at 17:55:18 UTC, Steven Schveighoffer wrote:
> On 10/11/17 1:42 PM, WhatMeWorry wrote:
>> On Wednesday, 11 October 2017 at 07:23:02 UTC, Peter R wrote:
>>> [...]
>> 
>> +10  We need a walkthru of how to set up everything. It's like a new cook being give all the ingredients but no recipe instructions.
>
> I have to say as someone who uses mostly non-windows systems, these problems only seem to crop up for Windows developers.
>
> I don't know if it's a different expectation or a different mindset or something else.
>
> -Steve

I'm primary on Windows and I have never had any troubles setting up D or getting an environment working, but that might just be me. I did spend the first year of my D experience using command-line and notepad++ only though; however recent years I've used atom with some cmd hacking to setup my environment there. I do have Visual D, but it's just not suitable for custom build processes with multiple projects; especially not with dub.
October 13
On Friday, 13 October 2017 at 00:45:53 UTC, Dennis Cote wrote:
> On Thursday, 12 October 2017 at 07:48:09 UTC, Vadim Lopatin wrote:
>> Could you please submit issue on https://github.com/buggins/dlangide/issues
>>
>
> Done.
>
> https://github.com/buggins/dlangide/issues/349

Thank you!

Could you please attach ui.log of DlangIDE starting (while option override screen dpi is disabled - set to default).
October 13
On Friday, 13 October 2017 at 06:01:25 UTC, Vadim Lopatin wrote:
> On Friday, 13 October 2017 at 00:45:53 UTC, Dennis Cote wrote:
>> On Thursday, 12 October 2017 at 07:48:09 UTC, Vadim Lopatin wrote:
>>> Could you please submit issue on https://github.com/buggins/dlangide/issues
>>>
>>
>> Done.
>>
>> https://github.com/buggins/dlangide/issues/349
>
> Thank you!
>
> Could you please attach ui.log of DlangIDE starting (while option override screen dpi is disabled - set to default).

Forgot to add - use debug build - w/o --build=release
October 13
Replying to a couple of the comments here

"I don't know if it's a different expectation or a different mindset or something else."
I'd like to think I'm fairly knowledgeable, but Yes, I expect installing/configuring to be easy and quick, so I can get to the actual programming. I expect solid debugging capabilities, full IDE support, autocomplete, and 64-bit windows libraries. It is just some of the things that I am used to with Visual C++. "Better than C++" is my motivation to evaluate D, and to me that goes beyond just the language and standard library.
If I, as a new user, don't have a solid first impression, I'd have no expectation that the rest of the D ecosystem is polished, and I would return to C++

"even when we do have IDE support (e.g. VisualD), it never seems to be enough for some folks."
I tried VisualD, but the fact that it didn't use dub underneath made me think "that's not the way people are supposed to use D". That is why I started the VSCode path- that felt more in the spirit of the D ecosystem.

I admit I didn't consider evaluating DLangIDE earlier. I am used to Visual Studio, so that was my first choice. If I have to learn a second editor I want one that is known to work with many languages and lots of plugin support, so I picked VS Code.


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