On Thursday, 19 October 2017 at 07:04:14 UTC, Moritz Maxeiner wrote:
> On Thursday, 19 October 2017 at 06:32:10 UTC, Ecstatic Coder wrote:
>> [...]
>>
>> OK actually my initial proposal was this one :
>>
>> http://forum.dlang.org/post/mailman.6425.1503876081.31550.digitalmars-d-bugs@puremagic.com
>>
>> [...]
>>
>> And the definitive answer about that is of course something like "Hey man, it's open source, it's all made by volunteers on their free time, so it must be complicated, what did you expect ?" and "Make all the changes by yourself if you don't like it the way it is.".
>>
>> Seriously ?
>>
>> OK, message received. If putting two download links per detected platform on the main page is too much work for the volunteers who maintains the landing page, so let's keep it the way it is. I have a lot of work and a family life too, no problem...
>
>
> I remember those events very differently, so here they are for posterity:
>
> http://forum.dlang.org/thread/llreleiqxjllthmlgyhh@forum.dlang.org?page=1
> http://forum.dlang.org/post/cxunwfnhdrlpujjxzraq@forum.dlang.org

That's exactly what I said.

Thanks for confirming what I have written.

And please stop the personal attacks, thanks.

That's because of this kind of "harrassment" that potential volunteers like me are demotivated and prefer to let kind people like you manage the community needs.

On Thursday, 19 October 2017 at 06:32:10 UTC, Ecstatic Coder wrote:
> And the definitive answer about that is of course something like "Hey man, it's open source, it's all made by volunteers on their free time, so it must be complicated, what did you expect ?" and "Make all the changes by yourself if you don't like it the way it is.".
>
> Seriously ?
>

I remember myself saying the exact same thing back in the early nineties...when linux and freebsd were just becoming popular....boy...if you think installing dmd is headache, take a trip back in time.


> OK, message received. If putting two download links per detected platform on the main page is too much work for the volunteers who maintains the landing page, so let's keep it the way it is. I have a lot of work and a family life too, no problem...

That's a great idea. Go create a website to specifically target 'DMD for beginners'. Become a contributor. Let others know what you did, to make things work. Because that is the way..things are most likely to get done, in the open source community... by contributing.

In the end, "..those that need to know...do know."

On Thursday, 19 October 2017 at 08:22:17 UTC, codephantom wrote:
> On Thursday, 19 October 2017 at 06:32:10 UTC, Ecstatic Coder wrote:
>> And the definitive answer about that is of course something like "Hey man, it's open source, it's all made by volunteers on their free time, so it must be complicated, what did you expect ?" and "Make all the changes by yourself if you don't like it the way it is.".
>>
>> Seriously ?
>>
>
> I remember myself saying the exact same thing back in the early nineties...when linux and freebsd were just becoming popular....boy...if you think installing dmd is headache, take a trip back in time.
>
>
>> OK, message received. If putting two download links per detected platform on the main page is too much work for the volunteers who maintains the landing page, so let's keep it the way it is. I have a lot of work and a family life too, no problem...
>
> That's a great idea. Go create a website to specifically target 'DMD for beginners'. Become a contributor. Let others know what you did, to make things work. Because that is the way..things are most likely to get done, in the open source community... by contributing.
>
> In the end, "..those that need to know...do know."

I agree. I had this mindset once, but now I'm completely demotivated, and you now know because of what and who.

For instance here I answer to the prior post, and some guy attacks me once again on something weeks ago. Very kind.

I was just saying that the advice on the above post, asking people to stop using Windows and use FreeBSD etc, is not what Windows scripters need and want.

They just want to be able to do three things as quickly and obviously as possible :
- download the D compiler setup.exe
- download the D IDE setup.exe
- compile and run test code

Easily, no worries, simple "plug-n-play" installation.

That's not a lot to ask.

But read the start of this thread, and you will see that's currently not as easy and obvious as it should be.

Hence my suggestion to better show them the "easy road" with DMD and CoEdit, plus a few explanations after download : Click here to create empty file, type this hello-word code below, and click here to compile and run.

On Thursday, 19 October 2017 at 08:17:04 UTC, Ecstatic Coder wrote:
> On Thursday, 19 October 2017 at 07:04:14 UTC, Moritz Maxeiner
>
> And please stop the personal attacks, thanks.
>
> That's because of this kind of "harrassment" that potential volunteers like me are demotivated and prefer to let kind people like you manage the community needs.

'people like you' ??

That's comment is really unfair, and may itself it be harrasment.

The reason it's got to this, is simply that your expectations are too high.

You are demanding that volunteers, deliver to you, on a silver platter, an all encompassing solution to your problem. It's not going to happen.

This whole thread is about trying to help you understand that such an expectation will get you nowhere...which is what's happened.

But in any case, you really need to check both your attitude, and expectations.

Good luck. And I do hope you choose to become a 'contributor' at some point.

Btw maybe the simplest way to achieve what I suggest would be to ask Basil to allow the CoEdit windows installer to optionally download and install the D compiler.

This way you download only one setup.exe, and you are ready to go...

Just put a big obvious download link button towards this exe on D's main landing page and that's it.

I still think that D's main landing page should actually be based the content of the Dlang Tour landing page, which is more welcoming.

Btw +1 for the simple hello-world example :

import std.stdio;
import std.algorithm;
import std.range;

void main()
{
    // Let's get going!
    writeln("Hello World!");

    // An example for experienced programmers:
    // Take three arrays, and without allocating
    // any new memory, sort across all the
    // arrays inplace
    int[] arr1 = [4, 9, 7];
    int[] arr2 = [5, 2, 1, 10];
    int[] arr3 = [6, 8, 3];
    sort(chain(arr1, arr2, arr3));
    writefln("%s\n%s\n%s\n", arr1, arr2, arr3);
    // To learn more about this example, see the
    // "Range algorithms" page under "Gems"
}

Personally I would have written the last statement with a simple writeln :

writeln( arr1, "\n", arr2, "\n", arr3, "\n" );

Longer, less idiomatic, but still a little bit simpler to understand than "%s\n%s\%s\n".

The devil is in the detail...

On Thursday, 19 October 2017 at 08:46:58 UTC, codephantom wrote:
> On Thursday, 19 October 2017 at 08:17:04 UTC, Ecstatic Coder wrote:
>> On Thursday, 19 October 2017 at 07:04:14 UTC, Moritz Maxeiner
>>
>> And please stop the personal attacks, thanks.
>>
>> That's because of this kind of "harrassment" that potential volunteers like me are demotivated and prefer to let kind people like you manage the community needs.
>
> 'people like you' ??
>
> That's comment is really unfair, and may itself it be harrasment.
>
> The reason it's got to this, is simply that your expectations are too high.
>
> You are demanding that volunteers, deliver to you, on a silver platter, an all encompassing solution to your problem. It's not going to happen.
>
> This whole thread is about trying to help you understand that such an expectation will get you nowhere...which is what's happened.
>
> But in any case, you really need to check both your attitude, and expectations.
>
> Good luck. And I do hope you choose to become a 'contributor' at some point.

I'm currently the maintainer of a dozen D projects that I open sourced to promote the D language.

I don't provide executables, people have to download the DMD compiler to use them.

I'm also promoting D a lot on Quora. Probably more than anybody in this community.

And I was close to remake the D landing page.

And YES, I still find Moritz a bit demotivating with people like me. Maybe it's unfair, but that's how I feel, sorry for that.

On Thursday, 19 October 2017 at 08:46:58 UTC, codephantom wrote:
> On Thursday, 19 October 2017 at 08:17:04 UTC, Ecstatic Coder wrote:
>> On Thursday, 19 October 2017 at 07:04:14 UTC, Moritz Maxeiner
>>
>> And please stop the personal attacks, thanks.
>>
>> That's because of this kind of "harrassment" that potential volunteers like me are demotivated and prefer to let kind people like you manage the community needs.
>
> 'people like you' ??
>
> That's comment is really unfair, and may itself it be harrasment.
>
> The reason it's got to this, is simply that your expectations are too high.
>
> You are demanding that volunteers, deliver to you, on a silver platter, an all encompassing solution to your problem. It's not going to happen.
>
> This whole thread is about trying to help you understand that such an expectation will get you nowhere...which is what's happened.
>
> But in any case, you really need to check both your attitude, and expectations.
>
> Good luck. And I do hope you choose to become a 'contributor' at some point.

For instance, here I say that I don't agree that the "easy" way to use D is by using FreeBSD instead of Windows.

Here is the answer :

"I remember those events very differently, so here they are for posterity:
>
> http://forum.dlang.org/thread/llreleiqxjllthmlgyhh@forum.dlang.org?page=1
> http://forum.dlang.org/post/cxunwfnhdrlpujjxzraq@forum.dlang.org"

Thanks a lot. Look how I'm much more motivated to add the two buttons myself on D's landing page, as I was close to do (sincerely). Well done boy !!!

On Thursday, 19 October 2017 at 08:46:58 UTC, codephantom wrote:
> On Thursday, 19 October 2017 at 08:17:04 UTC, Ecstatic Coder wrote:
>> On Thursday, 19 October 2017 at 07:04:14 UTC, Moritz Maxeiner
>>
>> And please stop the personal attacks, thanks.
>>
>> That's because of this kind of "harrassment" that potential volunteers like me are demotivated and prefer to let kind people like you manage the community needs.
>
> 'people like you' ??
>
> That's comment is really unfair, and may itself it be harrasment.
>
> The reason it's got to this, is simply that your expectations are too high.
>
> You are demanding that volunteers, deliver to you, on a silver platter, an all encompassing solution to your problem. It's not going to happen.
>
> This whole thread is about trying to help you understand that such an expectation will get you nowhere...which is what's happened.
>
> But in any case, you really need to check both your attitude, and expectations.
>
> Good luck. And I do hope you choose to become a 'contributor' at some point.

And sorry for my "harrassment"...

On Thursday, 19 October 2017 at 08:36:55 UTC, Ecstatic Coder wrote:
>
> I agree. I had this mindset once, but now I'm completely demotivated, and you now know because of what and who.

Well it happend to me too... I turned to Windows after my first experiences with linux and freebsd in the nineties..

Took me a good decade to visit them again...

Today FreeBSD is always my first choice.

Go figure. (took a lot of effort on my part, to learn how to do things though. And thank to all the 'contributors' that helped make that easier for me.

This revert back to open source only happened, because I corrected my expectations. They were too high initially. And I had to learn 'how to learn', rather than just expect.

>
> I was just saying that the advice on the above post, asking people to stop using Windows and use FreeBSD etc, is not what Windows scripters need and want.
>

You might remember that I intentionally prefaced that post with "don't take my response too seriously...but..."

Did you skip that line, perhaps?

btw. What is it, that a Windows scripter, needs and wants and doesn't already have?

That's not an attack btw. I am genuinely interested, as there are so many better, all encompassing solutions to such a problem (on the Windows platform). e.g Powershell... and even..dare I say it... python...ooohhhh.....

Don't forget D was 'specfically' designed to be a better C/C++  ...that is it's origin. That's the audience it specifically targets.

It's not designed to give people a better experience scripting on the Windows platform (or any other platform for that matter), and it certainly does not target such an audience.

> But in any case, you really need to check both your attitude, and expectations.
>
> Good luck. And I do hope you choose to become a 'contributor' at some point.

Here is the list of D tools that I've open sourced so that PHP, JS and Go web developers may at least have a first experiment with D :

https://github.com/senselogic?tab=repositories

I hope that making them aware of the existence of the D language will make them think about its use as a valuable scripting language.

And I also hope that one day D will be promoted a lot for this use, including for web development scripting.