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March 16, 2008
Re: request for moderation
Christopher Wright wrote:
> anonymous wrote:
>> We saw the same thing many times.kris picks somebody who criticizes 
>> tango.He bombs the person with dirty personal attacks.He invests all 
>> time and energy in these evil attacks.
> 
> I've only seen this with Janice; they annoyed each other long in the 
> past and have a habit of getting on each others' nerves, and being on a 
> text-only forum doesn't help.
> 
> But this doesn't happen often, and it's pretty easy to ignore, unless 
> you're directly involved.
> 


Is it easy to ignore?  A number of people have been responding to these 
posts requesting that they stop... so I actually disagree.  Either I'm 
vastly over-estimating the problem or you are vastly ignoring it.


> 
>> Filtering his messages out is not the response because he pushes good 
>> contributors away.
> 
> But works quite well with Ty Tower. And that's why you're mentioning 
> Kris rather than Ty.


This is possible, but not the only reason.  I'm surprised that you are 
confident that this poster has been using filtering.


> 
> I don't think this is a significant problem. If you do, well, that's 
> your problem, not Walter's.


Actually, it is a problem because filtering will not work if others 
respond and quote the messages of the individual.  I suppose that calls 
for another layer of filtering? :)

-JJR
March 16, 2008
Re: request for moderation
"anonymous" <anon@anon.com> wrote in message 
news:frh97i$7ko$1@digitalmars.com...
>I am a regular on this news group from Europe.Not Janice.I say this for her 
>protection for more attacks from kris.Walter can identify me from my IP and 
>confirm.

Drama queen.
Seriously, sod off anon. What's up with whining lately? Grow a pair, or grow 
up. Leave this haven of ours alone and stop trolling.
March 16, 2008
Re: request for moderation
anon wrote:
> John Reimer Wrote: another rehash of his kris apology . funniest thing about kretinis is his minions . posing as objective reasonable fellas ... a bit criticizing him ... patting him on the back ... always giving justification for his antics . john real friends dont let friends miss therapy.

Heh, so apparently I have a problem not being ruthless enough with 
people in public, even when they deserve it...hmmm, that's good! :). 
"Moderation" isn't the key after all, then, I suppose?

I most certainly will be careful what I say about anybody in this 
newsgroup, friend or no friend.  Thus, my critical assessment of kris 
(though, honestly, I'm surprised you thought it to be justifying him -- 
I thought I was kinda harsh on the guy; I must have succeeded in 
achieving some balance! yay! :) ).

-JJR
March 16, 2008
Re: request for moderation
anon wrote:
> John Reimer Wrote: another rehash of his kris apology . funniest thing about kretinis is his minions . posing as objective reasonable fellas ... a bit criticizing him ... patting him on the back ... always giving justification for his antics . john real friends dont let friends miss therapy.


hmm David B. Held?
March 16, 2008
Re: request for moderation
John Reimer wrote:
> Is it easy to ignore?  A number of people have been responding to these 
> posts requesting that they stop... so I actually disagree.  Either I'm 
> vastly over-estimating the problem or you are vastly ignoring it.

Yes, I am, with almost no effort!

> This is possible, but not the only reason.  I'm surprised that you are 
> confident that this poster has been using filtering.

If you want to ignore all of one person's posts and you're not using 
filtering, it's your own fault that you have to see their posts. 
Thunderbird is free, it runs on about four major operating systems 
(sorry, BeOS users), and it supports filtering.

Even if you refuse to use a news client that lets you filter out 
people's messages, you can just skip any message from a known and 
habitual troll. They don't walk into your living room, tape your eyes 
open, and display their messages to you; you have to expend effort to 
read their messages. And with a single keypress, you can skip on to the 
next message.

Now, if two people you respect are flaming each other, that might upset 
you, and reasonably so. If you know them well enough, you should contact 
them in private and ask them to stop. And if they continue, well, that's 
their right. You should then ignore them.

> Actually, it is a problem because filtering will not work if others 
> respond and quote the messages of the individual.  I suppose that calls 
> for another layer of filtering? :)

Again, spacebar sends you to the next message. Or you could filter 
messages that contain the term "Ty Tower wrote:" and get 90% of replies 
to his posts, though that includes indirect ones.

> -JJR
March 16, 2008
Re: request for moderation
Christopher Wright wrote:
> John Reimer wrote:
>> Is it easy to ignore?  A number of people have been responding to 
>> these posts requesting that they stop... so I actually disagree.  
>> Either I'm vastly over-estimating the problem or you are vastly 
>> ignoring it.
> 
> Yes, I am, with almost no effort!
> 
>> This is possible, but not the only reason.  I'm surprised that you are 
>> confident that this poster has been using filtering.
> 
> If you want to ignore all of one person's posts and you're not using 
> filtering, it's your own fault that you have to see their posts. 
> Thunderbird is free, it runs on about four major operating systems 
> (sorry, BeOS users), and it supports filtering.
> 
> Even if you refuse to use a news client that lets you filter out 
> people's messages, you can just skip any message from a known and 
> habitual troll. They don't walk into your living room, tape your eyes 
> open, and display their messages to you; you have to expend effort to 
> read their messages. And with a single keypress, you can skip on to the 
> next message.
> 
> Now, if two people you respect are flaming each other, that might upset 
> you, and reasonably so. If you know them well enough, you should contact 
> them in private and ask them to stop. And if they continue, well, that's 
> their right. You should then ignore them.
> 
>> Actually, it is a problem because filtering will not work if others 
>> respond and quote the messages of the individual.  I suppose that 
>> calls for another layer of filtering? :)
> 
> Again, spacebar sends you to the next message. Or you could filter 
> messages that contain the term "Ty Tower wrote:" and get 90% of replies 
> to his posts, though that includes indirect ones.
> 


Good to know that that works for you, though I don't think you are 
seeing the problem, or we have different ideas about how this community 
should work. I'm guessing it's more the latter (many here see it as a 
personal right to say whatever they want, devoid of responsibility). 
I'm guessing also that I'm looking at this on the large scale, not the 
individual one, as you are.

For one, a problem not dealt with gets worse and spreads and eventually 
inflames a community overall such that filtering barriers are eventually 
going to be "overrun."  For two, filtering won't initially work for the 
many new D users that come to the community to see what the language is 
about; these see the in-fighting and trolling that goes on and get a bad 
impression of the language community (perhaps this is inevitable).  The 
problem has much more significance than the personal "I don't like this 
post" scale.  That's what I'm trying to address.

For those of us already here, we can certainly put your suggestion to 
use (which would be a good start), but eventually find ourselves trying 
to skip and avoid many topics and applying just as much effort in not 
reading the abrasive posts as finding the useful ones.  This may not be 
the case yet, but as the problem gets ignored this way, it grows.

Nonetheless, your advice is sound for the time being, since there is no 
other solution for those that remain here... and quite possibly will 
never be.

For the rest of us who can't hack it, I suppose the best solution will 
be to do what many others have done and leave the D newsgroup completely 
(not the D language, necessarily :) ).  That's likely the better one for 
those of us who are becoming weary of hearing the "free speech" mantra 
claiming that everyone can just do what they want ("just don't look when 
Joe shoots Jim... nobody is taping your eyes open", even when these 
things tend to pop up spontaneously).  In actual fact, I believe that is 
the philosophy of this group, and I'm afraid it's taken me awhile to 
figure that out; if that's the way it will stay, I think it's time I 
honestly evaluate why I read or write any posts here.

Anyway, thank you for your suggestion.

-JJR
March 16, 2008
Re: request for moderation
"anonymous" <anon@anon.com> wrote
>I am a regular on this news group from Europe.Not Janice.
>
> The reason my message is anonymous is the same.kris would make impractical
> for me to participate in this group.


Fair enough, anonymous.

You say you are a regular here, but that you're afraid to identify yourself 
solely
because of something awful that might happen. Hrm.

You appear to wish I were gone, so I'll make you a deal, ok? I give you my
word that I will refrain from further participation on this ng if what you
fear transpires, and you are whom you claim to be. That seems to be quite
reasonable?

If you are indeed a "regular" "from Europe", then nothing to worry about.
March 16, 2008
Re: request for moderation
I do not want you to leave.I wish civility in this group.I am sure you are able to keep a discussion technical.Nothing awful happens if I say who I am,just that you will remember and start personal attacks even after months.To deal with that, is only not practical.

Kris Wrote:
> "anonymous" <anon@anon.com> wrote
> >I am a regular on this news group from Europe.Not Janice.
> >
> > The reason my message is anonymous is the same.kris would make impractical
> > for me to participate in this group.
> 
> 
> Fair enough, anonymous.
> 
> You say you are a regular here, but that you're afraid to identify yourself 
> solely
> because of something awful that might happen. Hrm.
> 
> You appear to wish I were gone, so I'll make you a deal, ok? I give you my
> word that I will refrain from further participation on this ng if what you
> fear transpires, and you are whom you claim to be. That seems to be quite
> reasonable?
> 
> If you are indeed a "regular" "from Europe", then nothing to worry about.
> 
>
March 16, 2008
Re: request for moderation
Your post is also anonymous.So I am not impressed by your gonads.

dominik Wrote:

> 
> "anonymous" <anon@anon.com> wrote in message 
> news:frh97i$7ko$1@digitalmars.com...
> >I am a regular on this news group from Europe.Not Janice.I say this for her 
> >protection for more attacks from kris.Walter can identify me from my IP and 
> >confirm.
> 
> Drama queen.
> Seriously, sod off anon. What's up with whining lately? Grow a pair, or grow 
> up. Leave this haven of ours alone and stop trolling. 
> 
>
March 16, 2008
Re: request for moderation
Unlike some, his post is not anonymous at all ... there's are a variety of 
posts from dominik, replete with ip address and so on.


"anonymous" <anonymous@anon.com> wrote in message 
news:frjon8$1152$1@digitalmars.com...
> Your post is also anonymous.So I am not impressed by your gonads.
>
> dominik Wrote:
>
>>
>> "anonymous" <anon@anon.com> wrote in message
>> news:frh97i$7ko$1@digitalmars.com...
>> >I am a regular on this news group from Europe.Not Janice.I say this for 
>> >her
>> >protection for more attacks from kris.Walter can identify me from my IP 
>> >and
>> >confirm.
>>
>> Drama queen.
>> Seriously, sod off anon. What's up with whining lately? Grow a pair, or 
>> grow
>> up. Leave this haven of ours alone and stop trolling.
>>
>>
>
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