Jarrett Billingsley wrote:

> "Georg Wrede" <georg@nospam.org> wrote in message news:47E9526D.8010109@nospam.org...
> 
>> Other times, some people just have to take some time adjusting to a new group of people, and that's not even uncommon with "computer folks". Let's just give him some slack, for the time being.
> 
> I don't give racists slack.

Typical -It kept your ancestors alive for millions of years and in the last 50 you let them down clown

"Georg Wrede" <georg@nospam.org> wrote in message news:47E97E9D.8070209@nospam.org...

> How could a Troll ever become anything else than a Troll if every post is met with abuse, disrespect and profanities?
>
> It's not like a Troll is something one is born and destined with.

Except that Ty Tower is actively an asshole.  It's not like we met his posts with derision from the start.  It's only after he's acted like a toddler for a good month that we've gotten to the point where we've decided that he's no longer worth dealing with.

All I'm saying is -- if he's a nice person, it sure as hell doesn't show, and furthermore, it's not my job to perform rehabilitation on a chronic troll.  If he wants to be treated better, he should treat others better. People _did_ treat him with respect and he bit their head off.  It goes both ways.

"Georg Wrede" <georg@nospam.org> wrote in message news:47E97E9D.8070209@nospam.org...
> Simen Kjärås wrote:
>> On Tue, 25 Mar 2008 20:28:45 +0100, Georg Wrede <georg@nospam.org> wrote:
>>
>>> It happens that some folks have a few beers before writing, and intermittently that happens to quite many of us. (Who can say they've _never_ written here after a couple of beers?)
>>
>> I can. I don't drink beer. :p A few glasses of wine and spirits, though...
>>
>> More on topic: A troll is a troll. When it has proven no longer to be a troll, it should no longer be treated as one.
>
> Exactly my point, thank you!
>
> For some others, responding to even reasonable posts with "Don't feed the Troll", or "F**k [whatever]", will not defuse the situation. Heck, even a normal poster would react aggressively if the Small, Young, or New would horde against a reasonable post with such improper conduct -- thus announcing they're no better themselves.
>
> How could a Troll ever become anything else than a Troll if every post is met with abuse, disrespect and profanities?
>
> It's not like a Troll is something one is born and destined with.
>
> Besides, this is Walter's country!! So, to earn the right to mob or abuse others, one should need Walter's explicit approval. If he considers someone unwelcome to this forum, I'm sure Walter or Jan Knepper would figure out how to exclude them in no time at all.

(note: humorous.)

Maybe I can see where you're coming from, if you're thinking something like this:

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19

;)

Georg Wrede wrote:
> Simen Kjärås wrote:
>> On Tue, 25 Mar 2008 20:28:45 +0100, Georg Wrede <georg@nospam.org> wrote:
>>
> For some others, responding to even reasonable posts with "Don't feed the Troll", or "F**k [whatever]", will not defuse the situation. Heck, even a normal poster would react aggressively if the Small, Young, or New would horde against a reasonable post with such improper conduct -- thus announcing they're no better themselves.
> 
> How could a Troll ever become anything else than a Troll if every post is met with abuse, disrespect and profanities?

The first step to a Troll becoming a non-Troll is to apologize for past trolling behavior.

I agree, though, that ignoring Trolls is more productive than hurling insults at them.

--bb

Georg Wrede wrote:
> 
> It happens that some folks have a few beers before writing, and intermittently that happens to quite many of us. (Who can say they've _never_ written here after a couple of beers?)
> 

People who don't drink alcohol, for starters. :]

-- 
Bruno Medeiros - MSc in CS/E student
http://www.prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?BrunoMedeiros#D

Jarrett Billingsley wrote:
> (note: humorous.)
> 
> Maybe I can see where you're coming from, if you're thinking something like this:
> 
> http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19

What can I say? :-)

"Treat a Troll like a Troll, and he'll stay that way."

and

"Treat somebody regular and innocent like a Troll, and he'll become a Troll."

Bill Baxter wrote:
> I agree, though, that ignoring Trolls is more productive than hurling
>  insults at them.

Right.

> The first step to a Troll becoming a non-Troll is to apologize for
> past trolling behavior.

Hmm. This is akin to the 12-year-old mentality, i.e., expecting that they suddenly display maturity above that of the average poster here, before they can be forgiven.

It would mean that we are capable (either alone or with the crowd gathering with us, against them) to make the Troll's life so miserable that he has no choice but to bow down, become humiliated, and beg for forgiveness.

This is the behaviour I see all the early morning cartoons teaching my three kids: after an Epic Fight, the Hero states "Now you either crawl and apologize, or I'll Righteously Behead you!!! What's it gonna be?"

My kids have watched those every morning (7 days a week, living at my ex-wive's). I wouldn't be surprised if they'd behave like this as adolescents or even adults in a newsgroup.

Wanna guess if I think G. Bush grew up watching this kind of cartoons? Personally Conjuring up the "Axis of Evil" would be a logical result of this mind set. ("There's those that are with us, and the rest are Against Us. If you're not our Friend, then you're our Enemy". Good grief. As if nations, states, corporations, or individuals would only be Good or Evil, with nothing in between. Gee, so which is it, is your brother or your mother Evil or Good? Oh, sorry, but this is a yes/no question, with no other alternatives.)

---

My take on how to address any Troll (especially /not/ talking about Ty, but very much in general), is to give them time. They'll calm down, once they feel that the community is not grouping on them. -- And, if they still don't, then it's time for some action.

This action would obviously be to ignore them.

But still, only as far as the uncalled-for posts are concerned. If the same "troll" writes some "serious" or "proper" entries in the NG, those entries should be answered with appropriate correctness, that is, as if they'd been written by anybody else. And the posts the "troll" writes that aren't correct, THOSE should be silently ignored (and not even ridiculed or challenged or offended). Simply ignored.

---

"Let every post earn its answers."

"Georg Wrede" <georg@nospam.org> wrote in message news:47E99496.1010604@nospam.org...
> Jarrett Billingsley wrote:
>> (note: humorous.)
>>
>> Maybe I can see where you're coming from, if you're thinking something like this:
>>
>> http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19
>
> What can I say? :-)
>
> "Treat a Troll like a Troll, and he'll stay that way."
>
> and
>
> "Treat somebody regular and innocent like a Troll, and he'll become a Troll."

I suppose you are then implying:

"Treat a Troll like a regular person, and he'll become a regular person."

?

I find that terribly hard to believe, given my experience over the years..

"Georg Wrede" <georg@nospam.org> wrote in message news:47E99C94.3090601@nospam.org...

> Wanna guess if I think G. Bush grew up watching this kind of cartoons? Personally Conjuring up the "Axis of Evil" would be a logical result of this mind set. ("There's those that are with us, and the rest are Against Us. If you're not our Friend, then you're our Enemy". Good grief. As if nations, states, corporations, or individuals would only be Good or Evil, with nothing in between. Gee, so which is it, is your brother or your mother Evil or Good? Oh, sorry, but this is a yes/no question, with no other alternatives.)

Please don't bring up politics.  Anything but that.

Georg Wrede wrote:
> Bill Baxter wrote:
>> I agree, though, that ignoring Trolls is more productive than hurling
>>  insults at them.
> 
> Right.
> 
>> The first step to a Troll becoming a non-Troll is to apologize for
>> past trolling behavior.
> 
> Hmm. This is akin to the 12-year-old mentality, i.e., expecting that they suddenly display maturity above that of the average poster here, before they can be forgiven.

It's not a matter of forgiveness. If someone insulted me repeatedly, I wouldn't forgive them, I wouldn't help them out, and I would either ignore them, or if that were impossible, try to get them to shut up. If they later behaved nicely to me, consistently for a reasonable period, I might then ignore their past behavior. On the other hand, after a month of ruining his reputation, it'd take probably half a year for me to stop filtering his posts.

But flaming him just clutters the newsgroup.

> My take on how to address any Troll (especially /not/ talking about Ty, but very much in general), is to give them time. They'll calm down, once they feel that the community is not grouping on them. -- And, if they still don't, then it's time for some action.

It's a matter of how much patience you have. I don't think any reasonable person would make racist comments at random to people on a newsgroup with good intentions. So, in Ty Tower's case, the only conclusion is that he has ill intentions. And in that case, I think he deserves no patience.

> This action would obviously be to ignore them.
> 
> But still, only as far as the uncalled-for posts are concerned. If the same "troll" writes some "serious" or "proper" entries in the NG, those entries should be answered with appropriate correctness, that is, as if they'd been written by anybody else. And the posts the "troll" writes that aren't correct, THOSE should be silently ignored (and not even ridiculed or challenged or offended). Simply ignored.

The only reason I would agree with you is that other people might see the archives with the same question and want an answer, not a bunch of "go home, troll" posts.