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July 08, 2012
Re: LLVM IR influence on compiler debugging
On Sat, 07 Jul 2012 23:47:45 -0700, Walter Bright  
<newshound2@digitalmars.com> wrote:

> On 7/7/2012 9:16 PM, Adam Wilson wrote:
>> I still see pretty heinous backend problems crop up in
>> the bug reports for DMD.
>
> Come on, it's pretty stable. Do you watch the bug reports for gcc? I  
> remember a guy recently ran some exhaustive code gen tests over C  
> compilers, and dmc (the same back end as dmd) was the only one that did  
> them correctly.
>
> http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4131508

I stand corrected. :) It is true that I don't watch the GCC/LLVM buglists.

-- 
Adam Wilson
IRC: LightBender
Project Coordinator
The Horizon Project
http://www.thehorizonproject.org/
July 08, 2012
Re: LLVM IR influence on compiler debugging
On 2012-07-07 20:49, Walter Bright wrote:
> On 7/7/2012 3:46 AM, Jacob Carlborg wrote:
>> Theoretically you should be able to just look at the documentation
>
>
> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!
>

Yeah, I know how you feel about documentation.

-- 
/Jacob Carlborg
July 08, 2012
Re: LLVM IR influence on compiler debugging
On 2012-07-08 06:16, Adam Wilson wrote:

> As to compile speed, is LDC really *THAT* much slower than DMD so as to
> cause C++ style speed issues? I thought one of the whole points of D is
> that it doesn't need the epic numbers of passes and preprocessor that
> C++ does precisely because that's what slows down C++ so much...

No, LDC is still faster than C++ but slower than DMD. It's not the 
frontend that is the problem, it's the backend.

-- 
/Jacob Carlborg
July 08, 2012
Re: LLVM IR influence on compiler debugging
On 7/7/2012 11:05 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
>
> Compilation is a huge bottleneck for any major C++ code base, and adding
> hardware (distributing compilation etc) is survival, but definitely
> doesn't scale to make the problem negligible.
>
> In contrast, programmers have considerable control about generating fast
> code.
>

Our bottleneck with a large C++ codebase (Unreal Engine based game) is 
linking.  Granted we have beefy workstations (HP Z800 with dual quad or 
hex core xeons and hyperthreading), but a full build+link is 4-5 min, 
and a single change+link is over 2 min.

You can also speed up C++ compiling by merging a bunch of the .cpp files 
together (google "unity c++ build"), though if you go too crazy you will 
learn compilers eventually do explode when fed 5-10 megs of source code 
per translation unit heh.
July 09, 2012
Re: LLVM IR influence on compiler debugging
On Sun, 08 Jul 2012 13:26:53 +0200, Jacob Carlborg <doob@me.com> wrote:

> On 2012-07-07 20:49, Walter Bright wrote:
>> On 7/7/2012 3:46 AM, Jacob Carlborg wrote:
>>> Theoretically you should be able to just look at the documentation
>>
>>
>> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!
>>
>
> Yeah, I know how you feel about documentation.
>


You mean there are actually people out there who believe documentation
can be correct, not to mention understandable, comprehensive and giving
the information you need?
July 09, 2012
Re: LLVM IR influence on compiler debugging
On Monday, July 09, 2012 22:43:19 Simen Kjaeraas wrote:
> On Sun, 08 Jul 2012 13:26:53 +0200, Jacob Carlborg <doob@me.com> wrote:
> > On 2012-07-07 20:49, Walter Bright wrote:
> >> On 7/7/2012 3:46 AM, Jacob Carlborg wrote:
> >>> Theoretically you should be able to just look at the documentation
> >> 
> >> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!
> > 
> > Yeah, I know how you feel about documentation.
> 
> You mean there are actually people out there who believe documentation
> can be correct, not to mention understandable, comprehensive and giving
> the information you need?

Of course, it _can_ be, but assuming that it _is_ is another thing entirely. 
Good, accurate, up-to-date documentation does exist. It just isn't the norm.

- Jonathan M Davis
July 10, 2012
Re: LLVM IR influence on compiler debugging
On 2012-07-09 22:43, Simen Kjaeraas wrote:

> You mean there are actually people out there who believe documentation
> can be correct, not to mention understandable, comprehensive and giving
> the information you need?

You do know there are closed source libraries where you don't have an 
option.

-- 
/Jacob Carlborg
July 10, 2012
Re: LLVM IR influence on compiler debugging
On Tue, 10 Jul 2012 08:33:17 +0200, Jacob Carlborg <doob@me.com> wrote:

> On 2012-07-09 22:43, Simen Kjaeraas wrote:
>
>> You mean there are actually people out there who believe documentation
>> can be correct, not to mention understandable, comprehensive and giving
>> the information you need?
>
> You do know there are closed source libraries where you don't have an  
> option.
>

I know. I also know I have spent days on forums trying to find answers that
were not covered by that documentation. But this is turning stupid. We both
know documentation is not always 100%, and that it sometimes is good  
enough.

-- 
Simen
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