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May 15, 2008
What you use D for?
Hi all,

I'm a developer specialised in making eclipse based IDEs. We consider to create a comercial quality IDE for D but are unsure if it will pay of (and so we are able to throw full time developers at the project).

We need to know if there will be enough customers. Do you use D for commercial projects? Does your company make money with it? And is able to pay for an IDE (if it fullfill your needs and speed up your development, of course)?

It would be helpfull if you can describe in a few words what you do with D and perhaps could provide a link.

Thanks!

Arne
May 20, 2008
Re: What you use D for?
On Thu, 15 May 2008 10:40:56 +0400, Arne <user@domain.invalid> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I'm a developer specialised in making eclipse based IDEs. We consider to  
> create a comercial quality IDE for D but are unsure if it will pay of  
> (and so we are able to throw full time developers at the project).
>
> We need to know if there will be enough customers. Do you use D for  
> commercial projects? Does your company make money with it? And is able  
> to pay for an IDE (if it fullfill your needs and speed up your  
> development, of course)?
>
> It would be helpfull if you can describe in a few words what you do with  
> D and perhaps could provide a link.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Arne

IMO ther is already a _sufficiently_ good eclipse based IDE. And, if you  
look at  
http://www.digitalmars.com/d/archives/digitalmars/D/ide/what_IDE_do_you_use_1.html  
you'll see that vim/emacs are also quite popular among D programmers. D  
helped my company to solve several problems, but it's not making money  
with D. It would be able to pay for an IDE, but we are strongly encouraged  
to use free and open-source software like eclipse/netbeans/firefox etc.  
Because it's _sufficiently_ good for our purposes.
May 27, 2008
Re: What you use D for?
cy@ngs.ru wrote:
> On Thu, 15 May 2008 10:40:56 +0400, Arne <user@domain.invalid> wrote:
> 
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I'm a developer specialised in making eclipse based IDEs. We consider 
>> to  create a comercial quality IDE for D but are unsure if it will pay 
>> of  (and so we are able to throw full time developers at the project).
>>
>> We need to know if there will be enough customers. Do you use D for  
>> commercial projects? Does your company make money with it? And is 
>> able  to pay for an IDE (if it fullfill your needs and speed up your  
>> development, of course)?
>>
>> It would be helpfull if you can describe in a few words what you do 
>> with  D and perhaps could provide a link.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Arne
> 
> 
> IMO ther is already a _sufficiently_ good eclipse based IDE. And, if 
> you  look at  
> http://www.digitalmars.com/d/archives/digitalmars/D/ide/what_IDE_do_you_use_1.html  
> you'll see that vim/emacs are also quite popular among D programmers. D  
> helped my company to solve several problems, but it's not making money  
> with D. It would be able to pay for an IDE, but we are strongly 
> encouraged  to use free and open-source software like 
> eclipse/netbeans/firefox etc.  Because it's _sufficiently_ good for our 
> purposes.

Hi, Arne.

Earlier I posted my reply to your post.

Now, the reason why I took it for granted that you'll make a "native 
compiled ide" was that nobody needs another Eclipse plugin. I was sort 
of convinced that you didn't even consider that option, and that you 
mentioned experience as an Eclipse plugin developer just as a CV-type of 
reference.

A lot of people either find Eclipse as too resource hungry (memory, 
start-up time, overall sluggishness, the need to install several tens of 
megagytes worth of Java etc. code, just to run an editor or IDE), or 
just too imposing or distracting for the overall work one really 
wants/needs to do. (A lot of developers are over 30 years old, and many 
of them don't like a lot of extra bells and whistles all over the screen 
while they're trying to concentrate on the code at hand.)

Jussi Jumppanen has done an excellent job with Zeus. Alas, it's for 
Windows, only. While many believe that there's absolutely no money to 
reap for anything Linux related, I'd like to disagree. My development 
environment is Linux only, except for a few diehard Windows customers. 
And I make a living out of this business. And, I'd pony up any day I 
become aware of an IDE that "does the thing and doesn't get in the way", 
either technically or by distracting my attention.

Knowing enough to be a successful Eclipse Plugin Developer certainly 
gets you into a position to both experience and know what the user 
community really wants.

georg

PS. So, subtle, humble, agile, unobtrusive, -- and foremost, sufficient 
for the job, are the key words here.
May 27, 2008
Re: What you use D for?
Hi Georg,

> Jussi Jumppanen has done an excellent job with Zeus. Alas, 
> it's for Windows, only. 

Thank you for your kind works regarding Zeus :)

> A lot of developers are over 30 years old, and many of them 
> don't like a lot of extra bells and whistles all over the 
> screen while they're trying to concentrate on the code at 
> hand.)

Strangely enough I too am one of those 30+ programmers 
you describe.

Personally I find IDE's like Eclipse just a bit too slow for 
my fingers ;)

I also like to make the editing window as big as possible so I 
get annoyed by all those extra dockable windows and I really 
hate it when the IDE forces me to code with a mouse.

Which I guess basically explains why Zeus is the way it is.

> While many believe that there's absolutely no money to reap 
> for anything Linux related, I'd like to disagree. 

Unfortunately these days I think there is very little money 
in development tools :(

All the big languages (ie Java, C# etc) generally have free 
development tools (i.e NetBeans, Eclipse, Visual Studio etc) 
and it is quite impressive as to what these tools offer for 
free.

I think the big companies backing these languages are 
frantically trying to out compete each other with the 
next best free IDE, as the realise who ever wins the IDE 
war will also win the language war.

For example the way Visual Studio handles C# is truely 
quite amazing. To try an develop something like that for 
another language would take several man decades of work 
and Microsoft gives it away for free.

Cheers Jussi
May 27, 2008
Re: What you use D for?
Jussi Jumppanen wrote:
> For example the way Visual Studio handles C# is truely 
> quite amazing. To try an develop something like that for 
> another language would take several man decades of work 
> and Microsoft gives it away for free.

Well, only the Express Edition is free, although the Express Edition is 
quite feature-rich & powerful... though I always have felt that Visual 
C# Express is a step down from Eclipse JDT for Java.
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