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August 16, 2008
Re: The Death of D. (Was Tango vs Phobos)
Julio César Carrascal Urquijo wrote:
> Hello downs,
> 
>> Software is purely information. "Software is a product" is a
>> relatively novel idea that, I believe, was invented by our friends at
>> MS (though I cannot point at a source for that claim).
> 
> 
> Maybe this one:
> 
> http://www.blinkenlights.com/classiccmp/gateswhine.html
> 
> 

Ah. Looks like they started the "stealing" thing too.

TYVM, MS.
August 16, 2008
Re: The Death of D. (Was Tango vs Phobos)
downs wrote:
> Mike Parker wrote:
>> I'm sure we
>> can agree that if you want a chair I've crafted and I want to charge you
>> for it, then I am well within my right to do so.
> 
> Could we PLEASE keep the comparisons to physical goods out of it? NOT. THE SAME. THING.
> 
>> How is it that when my
>> creation is infinitely copyable, I suddenly lose that right?
> 
> Because you don't lose the original anymore. This has been said hundreds of times.
> 

To clarify this point: you still have a *temporary* right to control the duplication of your infinitely copyable creation.

But it is *not the same right* as the one that allows you to charge for the chair.
August 16, 2008
Re: The Death of D. (Was Tango vs Phobos)
downs wrote:
> downs wrote:
>> Mike Parker wrote:
>>> I'm sure we
>>> can agree that if you want a chair I've crafted and I want to charge you
>>> for it, then I am well within my right to do so.
>> Could we PLEASE keep the comparisons to physical goods out of it? NOT. THE SAME. THING.

IT. IS. THE SAME. THING.

>>
>>> How is it that when my
>>> creation is infinitely copyable, I suddenly lose that right?
>> Because you don't lose the original anymore. This has been said hundreds of times.
>>
> 
> To clarify this point: you still have a *temporary* right to control the duplication of your infinitely copyable creation.
> 
> But it is *not the same right* as the one that allows you to charge for the chair.

But it *is* the same right.

I really didn't expect anyone to give me anything new on this. It's 
always the same arguments back and forth. This is one of those issues 
that people rarely change their minds about.
August 16, 2008
Re: The Death of D. (Was Tango vs Phobos)
Jarrett Billingsley wrote:
> "downs" <default_357-line@yahoo.de> wrote in message 
> news:g84gml$1rb1$1@digitalmars.com...
> 
>> Software is purely information. "Software is a product" is a relatively 
>> novel idea that, I believe, was invented by our friends at MS (though I 
>> cannot point at a source for that claim).
> 
> Oh don't give me that bullshit.  If anything, another company came up with 
> the idea and MS bought them out ;) 
> 
>

Oh, come on! "software is a product" makes sense -- as in "you buy it 
and you can do what you want with it (your copy of it, that is)". I 
believe what MS gave us was "software is licensed, and you can only do 
with it what we say you can no matter how much you paid for it". Which 
is more absurd then saying software developers have no right to sell 
their software!
August 16, 2008
Re: The Death of D. (Was Tango vs Phobos)
downs wrote:

> 
> Note that they used the word "Piracy". Not "Stealing".
> 
> I wish you'd remember that more.

Yeah, because capturing vessels on the high seas has a lot more in 
common with illegally obtaining copyable goods than "stealing" does.
August 16, 2008
Re: The Death of D. (Was Tango vs Phobos)
"Mike Parker" <aldacron@gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:g86q1l$2qrv$2@digitalmars.com...
> Jarrett Billingsley wrote:
>> "downs" <default_357-line@yahoo.de> wrote in message 
>> news:g84gml$1rb1$1@digitalmars.com...
>>
>>> Software is purely information. "Software is a product" is a relatively 
>>> novel idea that, I believe, was invented by our friends at MS (though I 
>>> cannot point at a source for that claim).
>>
>> Oh don't give me that bullshit.  If anything, another company came up 
>> with the idea and MS bought them out ;)
>
> Oh, come on! "software is a product" makes sense -- as in "you buy it and 
> you can do what you want with it (your copy of it, that is)". I believe 
> what MS gave us was "software is licensed, and you can only do with it 
> what we say you can no matter how much you paid for it". Which is more 
> absurd then saying software developers have no right to sell their 
> software!

Oh I agree that MS didn't "come up" with the idea that software is a 
product.  I don't think it ever was a novel concept.  I was just making a 
snarky remark about MS's typical business practices.

Now whether MS came up with the idea of restrictive software licenses -- now 
that really _does_ smell of bullshit and anti-MS-fanboyism.  MS is not the 
only eeeevil monopolistic company out there :P
August 16, 2008
Re: The Death of D. (Was Tango vs Phobos)
Mike Parker wrote:
> downs wrote:
> 
>>
>> Note that they used the word "Piracy". Not "Stealing".
>>
>> I wish you'd remember that more.
> 
> Yeah, because capturing vessels on the high seas has a lot more in
> common with illegally obtaining copyable goods than "stealing" does.

Verily, I have gotten 'burned'.
August 16, 2008
Re: The Death of D. (Was Tango vs Phobos)
Mike Parker wrote:
> downs wrote:
>> downs wrote:
>>> Mike Parker wrote:
>>>> I'm sure we
>>>> can agree that if you want a chair I've crafted and I want to charge
>>>> you
>>>> for it, then I am well within my right to do so.
>>> Could we PLEASE keep the comparisons to physical goods out of it?
>>> NOT. THE SAME. THING.
> 
> IT. IS. THE SAME. THING.
> 
>>>
>>>> How is it that when my
>>>> creation is infinitely copyable, I suddenly lose that right?
>>> Because you don't lose the original anymore. This has been said
>>> hundreds of times.
>>>
>>
>> To clarify this point: you still have a *temporary* right to control
>> the duplication of your infinitely copyable creation.
>>
>> But it is *not the same right* as the one that allows you to charge
>> for the chair.
> 
> But it *is* the same right.
> 
> I really didn't expect anyone to give me anything new on this. It's
> always the same arguments back and forth. This is one of those issues
> that people rarely change their minds about.

So ..

you are saying property right is the same thing as copyright?
August 16, 2008
Re: The Death of D. (Was Tango vs Phobos)
Mike Parker wrote:
> downs wrote:
> 
>>
>> Note that they used the word "Piracy". Not "Stealing".
>>
>> I wish you'd remember that more.
> 
> Yeah, because capturing vessels on the high seas has a lot more in
> common with illegally obtaining copyable goods than "stealing" does.

Why can't we fu*king call the dog by his name?
when a person infringes someone else' copyrights he's not pirating (as
you said it, pirating is "capturing vessels on the high seas") and he's
not stealing. that person _*infringes*_ someone else' copyrights.
Why is that so difficult for people to use the correct word?
infringe. here I just used it myself. If anyone has deep issues with
that we can also use "violate". no need to invent new words for an
already well defined concept just to satisfy someone's (MPAA, RIAA, etc)
PR goals.
August 16, 2008
Re: The Death of D. (Was Tango vs Phobos)
Yigal Chripun wrote:
> Mike Parker wrote:
>> downs wrote:
>>
>>> Note that they used the word "Piracy". Not "Stealing".
>>>
>>> I wish you'd remember that more.
>> Yeah, because capturing vessels on the high seas has a lot more in
>> common with illegally obtaining copyable goods than "stealing" does.
> 
> Why can't we fu*king call the dog by his name?
> when a person infringes someone else' copyrights he's not pirating (as
> you said it, pirating is "capturing vessels on the high seas") and he's
> not stealing. that person _*infringes*_ someone else' copyrights.
> Why is that so difficult for people to use the correct word?
> infringe. here I just used it myself. If anyone has deep issues with
> that we can also use "violate". no need to invent new words for an
> already well defined concept just to satisfy someone's (MPAA, RIAA, etc)
> PR goals.

"Infringing a copyright": 7 syllables.

"Pirating": 3 syllables.

"Stealing": 2 syllables.

Sad but true.
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