Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
> Thanks. One problem in coding with first and last was that sometimes the code looks unnatural, especially when your range exposes a few more functions. In a stream parser, dealing with the "first" element is not the most natural way to think of it. But I agree that first and last are definitely palatable and natural most of the time. But then again, shouldn't any design have the inevitable cutesy that makes it memorable? :o)

One consideration when selecting names is how it would interact with google. One advantage to head/toe is there is already head/tail when thinking of a list, and head/toe would fit into that naturally.

Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
> Ary Borenszweig wrote:
>> - Is it possible to add elements to a range? Suppose a linked list, you want to traverse it's elements until a condition is met on an element, and then add something after it. Or before it. I see there's "put", but it also says "An output range models a one-pass forward writing iteration.", so I think it's not the same.
> 
> Never. Ranges never grow. You need access to the "mother" container, which will offer primitives for insertion and removal of elements.

I agree. I don't think it is ever a good idea to try to add/remove elements of a container while iterating over it. foreach disallows it.

Walter Bright wrote:
> Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
>> Thanks. One problem in coding with first and last was that sometimes the code looks unnatural, especially when your range exposes a few more functions. In a stream parser, dealing with the "first" element is not the most natural way to think of it. But I agree that first and last are definitely palatable and natural most of the time. But then again, shouldn't any design have the inevitable cutesy that makes it memorable? :o)
> 
> One consideration when selecting names is how it would interact with google. One advantage to head/toe is there is already head/tail when thinking of a list, and head/toe would fit into that naturally.

I agree. Sorry tipsters. I think head/toe has one established thing and one cutesy. Tip/toe has two cutesies. An unwritten (or perhaps actually written) rule of good humor is that you shouldn't make a double pun. They somehow don't add to double effect.

Andrei

"Walter Bright" wrote
> Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
>> Ary Borenszweig wrote:
>>> - Is it possible to add elements to a range? Suppose a linked list, you want to traverse it's elements until a condition is met on an element, and then add something after it. Or before it. I see there's "put", but it also says "An output range models a one-pass forward writing iteration.", so I think it's not the same.
>>
>> Never. Ranges never grow. You need access to the "mother" container, which will offer primitives for insertion and removal of elements.
>
> I agree. I don't think it is ever a good idea to try to add/remove elements of a container while iterating over it. foreach disallows it.

I allow removal during foreach in dcollections.  However, it is done by the opApply function at the request of the delegate (I pass in a ref boolean).

I don't think this method violates the foreach contract.

I use this when I'm iterating over a container trying to decide whether elements should be removed.  If you don't allow this, then either you must use an iterator/range model, or build a separate list of elements to delete once you have exited the foreach loop.

Using this model, I can do things like O(n) traverse and remove from an array.

-Steve

Andrei Alexandrescu Wrote:

> Bill Baxter wrote:
> > On Fri, Sep 12, 2008 at 11:39 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail@erdani.org> wrote:
> >> Pablo Ripolles wrote:
> >>> What about "isDone"?
> >> isDone is great, I just wanted to keep the one-word streak going. Let's see what everyone else says.
> > 
> > Hmm.  std.algorithm does have an "isSorted" function.  So I guess I agree it would be more consistent if you call it isDone or isEmpty.
> > 
> > Or rename "isSorted" to "sorted".  :-)  But then you have to face the consequences later when you want to have a predicate that is ambiguous without the "is".    Probably a lot of noun predicates are in that category -- i.e. checking  isSomeNoun(x).  Like "isRange(x)" to see if x is a range.  That would have to just become "range(x)" which is a bit ambiguous.
> > 
> > So I agree. Stick the "is" in there.
> 
> Thing is, people will call isSorted much less often than (isD|d)one. In std.algorithm clearly the one-word paradigm can't scale. But for a handful of heavily-used names I'd be willing to take the Pepsi challenge.
> 
> Andrei
> 
> P.S. The more I think of it, the more I like "tip" of the range. Short, poignant, easy to remember. Not pressing the red button just yet.

A perhaps more aeronautical term but short and nice as an alternative to "tip" might be "aft".

So, what about "aft" instead of "tip"?

"head"/"aft" it's not that bad, is it?

Cheers!

Leandro Lucarella Wrote:

> Andrei Alexandrescu, el 12 de septiembre a las 09:39 me escribiste:
> > Pablo Ripolles wrote:
> > >What about "isDone"?
> > 
> > isDone is great, I just wanted to keep the one-word streak going. Let's see what everyone else says.
> 
> I much prefer done, because is shorter, and, well, maybe because I hate CamelCase too ;)

I do not like it either, we already have it though.  I definitely prefer CamelCase than inconsistency.

Cheers!

Leandro Lucarella Wrote:

> Andrei Alexandrescu, el 12 de septiembre a las 09:39 me escribiste:
> > Pablo Ripolles wrote:
> > >What about "isDone"?
> > 
> > isDone is great, I just wanted to keep the one-word streak going. Let's see what everyone else says.
> 
> I much prefer done, because is shorter, and, well, maybe because I hate CamelCase too ;)

I do not like it either, we already have it though.  I definitely prefer CamelCase than inconsistency.

Cheers!

According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aft
The opposite of aft is forward, pronounced "forrard" for some reason.
Not good I think.

I see nothing wrong with head/foot.
There's "head of a bed / foot of a bed" so it is not the case that
these words always refer to people or that
there's always more than one foot.

---bb

On Sat, Sep 13, 2008 at 7:12 AM, Pablo Ripolles <in-call@gmx.net> wrote:
> Andrei Alexandrescu Wrote:
>
>> Bill Baxter wrote:
>> > On Fri, Sep 12, 2008 at 11:39 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail@erdani.org> wrote:
>> >> Pablo Ripolles wrote:
>> >>> What about "isDone"?
>> >> isDone is great, I just wanted to keep the one-word streak going. Let's see what everyone else says.
>> >
>> > Hmm.  std.algorithm does have an "isSorted" function.  So I guess I agree it would be more consistent if you call it isDone or isEmpty.
>> >
>> > Or rename "isSorted" to "sorted".  :-)  But then you have to face the consequences later when you want to have a predicate that is ambiguous without the "is".    Probably a lot of noun predicates are in that category -- i.e. checking  isSomeNoun(x).  Like "isRange(x)" to see if x is a range.  That would have to just become "range(x)" which is a bit ambiguous.
>> >
>> > So I agree. Stick the "is" in there.
>>
>> Thing is, people will call isSorted much less often than (isD|d)one. In std.algorithm clearly the one-word paradigm can't scale. But for a handful of heavily-used names I'd be willing to take the Pepsi challenge.
>>
>> Andrei
>>
>> P.S. The more I think of it, the more I like "tip" of the range. Short, poignant, easy to remember. Not pressing the red button just yet.
>
> A perhaps more aeronautical term but short and nice as an alternative to "tip" might be "aft".
>
> So, what about "aft" instead of "tip"?
>
> "head"/"aft" it's not that bad, is it?
>
> Cheers!
>

Bill Baxter Wrote:

> According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aft
> The opposite of aft is forward, pronounced "forrard" for some reason.
> Not good I think.

Well, those are the adjective forms.  I was thinking about the aft of an airplane...

> 
> I see nothing wrong with head/foot.
> There's "head of a bed / foot of a bed" so it is not the case that
> these words always refer to people or that
> there's always more than one foot.

Ok, that sounds more convincing than "head"/"toe", that's for sure.

> 
> ---bb
> 
> On Sat, Sep 13, 2008 at 7:12 AM, Pablo Ripolles <in-call@gmx.net> wrote:
> > Andrei Alexandrescu Wrote:
> >
> >> Bill Baxter wrote:
> >> > On Fri, Sep 12, 2008 at 11:39 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail@erdani.org> wrote:
> >> >> Pablo Ripolles wrote:
> >> >>> What about "isDone"?
> >> >> isDone is great, I just wanted to keep the one-word streak going. Let's see what everyone else says.
> >> >
> >> > Hmm.  std.algorithm does have an "isSorted" function.  So I guess I agree it would be more consistent if you call it isDone or isEmpty.
> >> >
> >> > Or rename "isSorted" to "sorted".  :-)  But then you have to face the consequences later when you want to have a predicate that is ambiguous without the "is".    Probably a lot of noun predicates are in that category -- i.e. checking  isSomeNoun(x).  Like "isRange(x)" to see if x is a range.  That would have to just become "range(x)" which is a bit ambiguous.
> >> >
> >> > So I agree. Stick the "is" in there.
> >>
> >> Thing is, people will call isSorted much less often than (isD|d)one. In std.algorithm clearly the one-word paradigm can't scale. But for a handful of heavily-used names I'd be willing to take the Pepsi challenge.
> >>
> >> Andrei
> >>
> >> P.S. The more I think of it, the more I like "tip" of the range. Short, poignant, easy to remember. Not pressing the red button just yet.
> >
> > A perhaps more aeronautical term but short and nice as an alternative to "tip" might be "aft".
> >
> > So, what about "aft" instead of "tip"?
> >
> > "head"/"aft" it's not that bad, is it?
> >
> > Cheers!
> >

On Sat, Sep 13, 2008 at 5:11 AM, Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail@erdani.org> wrote:
> Walter Bright wrote:
>>
>> Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks. One problem in coding with first and last was that sometimes the code looks unnatural, especially when your range exposes a few more functions. In a stream parser, dealing with the "first" element is not the most natural way to think of it. But I agree that first and last are definitely palatable and natural most of the time. But then again, shouldn't any design have the inevitable cutesy that makes it memorable? :o)
>>
>> One consideration when selecting names is how it would interact with google. One advantage to head/toe is there is already head/tail when thinking of a list, and head/toe would fit into that naturally.
>
> I agree. Sorry tipsters. I think head/toe has one established thing and one cutesy. Tip/toe has two cutesies. An unwritten (or perhaps actually written) rule of good humor is that you shouldn't make a double pun. They somehow don't add to double effect.
>
> Andrei
>

Head / foot!

No cutesie == even better!

--bb