On Wednesday, 28 December 2016 at 12:14:02 UTC, YAHB wrote:
>>> But what's the real issue ? You want to release a pre-compiled static library with headers ?
>> Yes.
>
> you'll be in front of another issue then: "dmd_personality"... unless you release the static library for DMD, LDC, GDC, + each version for each, basically debug + release...so already 6 ;]

Nope :)
Rikarin Studio is a package of precompiled druntime, phobos, Rikarin Framework (Async core, GUI AppKit, basic bindings...) bundled with LDC and own build tool distributed as a toolkit. User will not be able to choose between compilers :)

This is what people need, not 800 variants of every tool where at least one cannot work properly.

On Wednesday, 28 December 2016 at 12:43:03 UTC, bachmeier wrote:
> On Wednesday, 28 December 2016 at 08:35:52 UTC, Satoshi wrote:
>> I'm working on a commercial IDE and GUI framework for a year and half and I'm not able to release any version due to this bug[1].
>
> ...
>
>> Please, stop adding new features to D and start fixing existing ones.
>>
>> - Satoshi
>>
>> ---
>> [1] https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16590
>
> You've got things reversed. The point of a company like Google or Sun backing a language is that things get done, like this bug fix, so that the language can be used for whatever that company needs it to do.
>
> You claim you want to make money off the language, yet you are demanding that volunteers immediately fix a bug that is holding you back. That's an odd business model. You have three options: pay to fix it yourself, use a different language that allows you to benefit from work paid for by more profitable companies like Google, or wait for volunteers to do it on their schedule.
>
> This is not unique to D. I'm reminded of Visual Studio not supporting C99 or Firefox not supporting certain HTML 5 features.

That was what I thought to propose to him: he could found a bounty. Bounties are for a product but the founder doesn't have to be in the company or, like here, in the organization.

On Wednesday, 28 December 2016 at 12:44:38 UTC, Satoshi wrote:
> On Wednesday, 28 December 2016 at 12:14:02 UTC, YAHB wrote:
>>>> But what's the real issue ? You want to release a pre-compiled static library with headers ?
>>> Yes.
>>
>> you'll be in front of another issue then: "dmd_personality"... unless you release the static library for DMD, LDC, GDC, + each version for each, basically debug + release...so already 6 ;]
>
> Nope :)
> Rikarin Studio is a package of precompiled druntime, phobos, Rikarin Framework (Async core, GUI AppKit, basic bindings...) bundled with LDC and own build tool distributed as a toolkit. User will not be able to choose between compilers :)
>
> This is what people need, not 800 variants of every tool where at least one cannot work properly.

Sorry, to be honest I didn't take you seriously. Your bug report, so the starter of this off topic fork, is barely understandable: impossible to understand if it was a language issue, an issue of the header function generator...

You can open a bounty for this.

On Wednesday, 28 December 2016 at 12:43:03 UTC, bachmeier wrote:
> On Wednesday, 28 December 2016 at 08:35:52 UTC, Satoshi wrote:
>> I'm working on a commercial IDE and GUI framework for a year and half and I'm not able to release any version due to this bug[1].
>
> ...
>
>> Please, stop adding new features to D and start fixing existing ones.
>>
>> - Satoshi
>>
>> ---
>> [1] https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16590
>
> You've got things reversed. The point of a company like Google or Sun backing a language is that things get done, like this bug fix, so that the language can be used for whatever that company needs it to do.
>
> You claim you want to make money off the language, yet you are demanding that volunteers immediately fix a bug that is holding you back. That's an odd business model. You have three options: pay to fix it yourself, use a different language that allows you to benefit from work paid for by more profitable companies like Google, or wait for volunteers to do it on their schedule.
>
> This is not unique to D. I'm reminded of Visual Studio not supporting C99 or Firefox not supporting certain HTML 5 features.

I know that :/  I'm just responding to people who wants shift D to commercial companies but are doing different steps than they should do.

Yes, it's true that I want to make money off the language so I should paid for that fix but in other way you want to promote D to others and this is the thing what's holding me back to do the same. And the bug will be fixed anyway, so.

On 29/12/2016 2:08 AM, Satoshi wrote:
> On Wednesday, 28 December 2016 at 12:43:03 UTC, bachmeier wrote:
>> On Wednesday, 28 December 2016 at 08:35:52 UTC, Satoshi wrote:
>>> I'm working on a commercial IDE and GUI framework for a year and half
>>> and I'm not able to release any version due to this bug[1].
>>
>> ...
>>
>>> Please, stop adding new features to D and start fixing existing ones.
>>>
>>> - Satoshi
>>>
>>> ---
>>> [1] https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16590
>>
>> You've got things reversed. The point of a company like Google or Sun
>> backing a language is that things get done, like this bug fix, so that
>> the language can be used for whatever that company needs it to do.
>>
>> You claim you want to make money off the language, yet you are
>> demanding that volunteers immediately fix a bug that is holding you
>> back. That's an odd business model. You have three options: pay to fix
>> it yourself, use a different language that allows you to benefit from
>> work paid for by more profitable companies like Google, or wait for
>> volunteers to do it on their schedule.
>>
>> This is not unique to D. I'm reminded of Visual Studio not supporting
>> C99 or Firefox not supporting certain HTML 5 features.
>
> I know that :/  I'm just responding to people who wants shift D to
> commercial companies but are doing different steps than they should do.
>
> Yes, it's true that I want to make money off the language so I should
> paid for that fix but in other way you want to promote D to others and
> this is the thing what's holding me back to do the same. And the bug
> will be fixed anyway, so.

If you don't hear about any fixes coming from a core dev in the next day or so, contact Walter directly.

On Wednesday, 28 December 2016 at 12:55:17 UTC, YAHB wrote:
> Sorry, to be honest I didn't take you seriously. Your bug report, so the starter of this off topic fork, is barely understandable: impossible to understand if it was a language issue, an issue of the header function generator...
Sorry, I didn't want to start OT I just want to point on some aspects of D from my view.
My english is bad so I'm not able to express things as professionally as in my native language. But I think people here are enough intelligent to take me seriously regardless on how I write. Sorry...

On Wed, 28 Dec 2016 11:36:33 +0000, Satoshi wrote:

> On Wednesday, 28 December 2016 at 11:18:10 UTC, YAHB wrote:
>> On Wednesday, 28 December 2016 at 10:52:45 UTC, Satoshi wrote: On Wednesday, 28 December 2016 at 10:52:45 UTC, Satoshi wrote:
>>> Making header files manually is a wast of time what i don't have.
>>
>> Write your own header generator.
> Yes, why not to write my own language.

It should be significantly easier with dmd's json output.

On Wed, 28 Dec 2016 16:09:28 +0000, Chris Wright wrote:

> On Wed, 28 Dec 2016 11:36:33 +0000, Satoshi wrote:
> 
>> On Wednesday, 28 December 2016 at 11:18:10 UTC, YAHB wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, 28 December 2016 at 10:52:45 UTC, Satoshi wrote: On Wednesday, 28 December 2016 at 10:52:45 UTC, Satoshi wrote:
>>>> Making header files manually is a wast of time what i don't have.
>>>
>>> Write your own header generator.
>> Yes, why not to write my own language.
> 
> It should be significantly easier with dmd's json output.

My apologies; dmd's json output suffers the same problem.

On Wednesday, 28 December 2016 at 10:52:45 UTC, Satoshi wrote:
> On Wednesday, 28 December 2016 at 09:37:06 UTC, Jerry wrote:
>> Personally I'm not really looking for an IDE, I've settled for a text editor with a plugin for it. IDEs tend to be bulky and not be very good at manipulating text or rather lacking features to do so.
>
> It depends on specific IDE.
>
>> I don't see how the interface generator is stopping you from releasing the IDE anyways.
>
> It's GUI framework (set of libraries) what I cannot release. IDE is without the libs quite useless.

You don't need the source of the GUI framework to use a compiled program. If you are developing both the GUI and the IDE, then you don't need interface files. You can just use the D source code. Once you compile the IDE no one will have access to the interface files anyways, unless (like i mentioned above) for third party plugin developers.

> Wouldn't be that hard but the project have 200k lines of code. Making header files manually is a wast of time what i don't have.

That's including all the actual code bodies, you could probably write a regex to detect and select them. It wouldn't take as long as you think when you start erasing hundreds of lines of code with a single backspace. Anyways point is, it isn't really a showstopper. You could still have released your IDE without interface files to be used as an IDE and you could have made the interface files yourself if you really wanted to release the GUI.

> But the point is that D compiler specification[1] looks like this part works without a problem and is usable but it's a lie and nobody cares about it. Actually it will not ruin my project but complicates it. And this is not the way in which should business be made. 10 years of development and still some key features won't work properly.
>
> [1] https://dlang.org/dmd-osx.html#interface-files

It's a feature that probably a few people actually use, odds are they forget about it when adding new features and potentially there are no tests for it either.

On Wednesday, 28 December 2016 at 19:51:38 UTC, Jerry wrote:
> You don't need the source of the GUI framework to use a compiled program. If you are developing both the GUI and the IDE, then you don't need interface files. You can just use the D source code. Once you compile the IDE no one will have access to the interface files anyways, unless (like i mentioned above) for third party plugin developers.
No, GUI framework is one part of project like Qt, GTK or WPF and IDE is an another part.

> That's including all the actual code bodies, you could probably write a regex to detect and select them. It wouldn't take as long as you think when you start erasing hundreds of lines of code with a single backspace. Anyways point is, it isn't really a showstopper. You could still have released your IDE without interface files to be used as an IDE and you could have made the interface files yourself if you really wanted to release the GUI.

It's not so simple. I actually must know which functions can be called by CTFE and which not. auto functions should have stripped body with replaced auto for a specific type, etc.

Main part of the project is GUI framework not IDE itself. IDE is made just for simplify GUI development by D'n'D Interface Builder. Like in VS or XCode or Qt Creator.

Actually I want to release pre-alpha version of GUI framework just for a few people to show them progress, let them test it and get some feedback.

I can generate header files and then fix it manually but first I need a full coverage tests to recognize where bugs are. But still, patching header files every time when I change something is not real.