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May 11, 2009
Re: What's the current state of D?
Walter Bright, el 11 de mayo a las 11:46 me escribiste:
> Leandro Lucarella wrote:
> >I just hope one day in a near future we have D support in the tools I use
> >daily to develop as good as C++ so I can have a chance to convince my boss
> >to be able to use it at work =)
> 
> Hoping is one thing, but submitting patches, bug reports, etc. to the tool 
> developers is much more effective!

Sure, but people already done that and got ignore. I'm just glad you only
overlooked that mail and you're willing to help to iron out any licensing
issue.

GDB people have spoken (I don't see you subscribed to the bug report so
I transcribe the comment from GDB):

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
For a patch this size we would need copyright assignments from all
the authors of the patch.  I would suggest emailing the gdb list
and asking for the paperwork; one of the maintainers will get you started.

Also, send the patch to the gdb-patches list, as described here:
http://sourceware.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/~checkout~/src/gdb/CONTRIBUTE?content-type=text/x-cvsweb-markup&cvsroot=src
gdb doesn't really use bugzilla for patch tracking, much.

I glanced quickly at the patch; it will need some reformatting and it will
need to be rebased to the current cvs.  It may require other changes, too,
but I didn't read that closely.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

When all licensing issues are resolved I can do any adjustments to the
patch to comply with GDB coding style and rebase it to current CVS if the
original author is missing.

-- 
Leandro Lucarella (luca) | Blog colectivo: http://www.mazziblog.com.ar/blog/
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GPG Key: 5F5A8D05 (F8CD F9A7 BF00 5431 4145  104C 949E BFB6 5F5A 8D05)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
May 11, 2009
Re: What's the current state of D?
Leandro Lucarella wrote:
> GDB people have spoken (I don't see you subscribed to the bug report so
> I transcribe the comment from GDB):
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> For a patch this size we would need copyright assignments from all
> the authors of the patch.  I would suggest emailing the gdb list
> and asking for the paperwork; one of the maintainers will get you started.
> 
> Also, send the patch to the gdb-patches list, as described here:
> http://sourceware.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/~checkout~/src/gdb/CONTRIBUTE?content-type=text/x-cvsweb-markup&cvsroot=src
> gdb doesn't really use bugzilla for patch tracking, much.
> 
> I glanced quickly at the patch; it will need some reformatting and it will
> need to be rebased to the current cvs.  It may require other changes, too,
> but I didn't read that closely.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> When all licensing issues are resolved I can do any adjustments to the
> patch to comply with GDB coding style and rebase it to current CVS if the
> original author is missing.

If the original author is missing, you have a bigger problem. He presumably 
needs to sign the paperwork they mentioned...
May 11, 2009
Re: What's the current state of D?
Leandro Lucarella wrote:
>> Hoping is one thing, but submitting patches, bug reports, etc. to the tool 
>> developers is much more effective!
> Sure, but people already done that and got ignore. I'm just glad you only
> overlooked that mail and you're willing to help to iron out any licensing
> issue.

I'm not the tool vendor for gdb. I also looked over the patches to gdb 
and don't see anything that requires approval or action from me.

> GDB people have spoken (I don't see you subscribed to the bug report so
> I transcribe the comment from GDB):
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> For a patch this size we would need copyright assignments from all
> the authors of the patch.  I would suggest emailing the gdb list
> and asking for the paperwork; one of the maintainers will get you started.
> 
> Also, send the patch to the gdb-patches list, as described here:
> http://sourceware.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/~checkout~/src/gdb/CONTRIBUTE?content-type=text/x-cvsweb-markup&cvsroot=src
> gdb doesn't really use bugzilla for patch tracking, much.
> 
> I glanced quickly at the patch; it will need some reformatting and it will
> need to be rebased to the current cvs.  It may require other changes, too,
> but I didn't read that closely.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> When all licensing issues are resolved I can do any adjustments to the
> patch to comply with GDB coding style and rebase it to current CVS if the
> original author is missing.

It would be great if you could be the champion for this and get it 
through. It'll help out a lot!
May 11, 2009
Re: What's the current state of D?
Ameer Armaly wrote:
> Yes. This is the showstopper for me and what caused me to quietly walk away 
> from D to begin with. In my opinion the fact that having two runtimes is not 
> only tolerable but acceptable as normal has and will continue to hurt D1. We 
> have Phobos, the "official" runtime and then we have Tango, the "community" 
> runtime. Moreover having two runtimes casts doubt on the state of D as a 
> whole; if we can't even decide on a uniform runtime then people will wonder 
> what other unknown traps of incompleteness are in store. The fact that 
> nobody bothered to work all this out makes perfect sense- it's a lot more 
> fun to be hashing out new features- but if we intend to gain some semblance 
> of mainstream respect then it will be much easier with a single robust 
> runtime.

It has been bashed out for D2. Doing such changes to D1 will break 
everyone's D1 code, which destroys its mission of being stable.
May 11, 2009
Re: What's the current state of D?
"Walter Bright" <newshound1@digitalmars.com> wrote in message 
news:gua3u3$19c1$2@digitalmars.com...
> Ameer Armaly wrote:
>> Yes. This is the showstopper for me and what caused me to quietly walk 
>> away from D to begin with. In my opinion the fact that having two 
>> runtimes is not only tolerable but acceptable as normal has and will 
>> continue to hurt D1. We have Phobos, the "official" runtime and then we 
>> have Tango, the "community" runtime. Moreover having two runtimes casts 
>> doubt on the state of D as a whole; if we can't even decide on a uniform 
>> runtime then people will wonder what other unknown traps of 
>> incompleteness are in store. The fact that nobody bothered to work all 
>> this out makes perfect sense- it's a lot more fun to be hashing out new 
>> features- but if we intend to gain some semblance of mainstream respect 
>> then it will be much easier with a single robust runtime.
>
> It has been bashed out for D2. Doing such changes to D1 will break 
> everyone's D1 code, which destroys its mission of being stable.
Really? I was under the impression that Tango will be ported to D2 to 
continue the battle of standard libs but if I'm mistaken, then it's a lot 
better than I originally figured.
May 11, 2009
Re: What's the current state of D?
Ameer Armaly Wrote:

> 
> "Walter Bright" <newshound1@digitalmars.com> wrote in message 
> news:gua3u3$19c1$2@digitalmars.com...
> > Ameer Armaly wrote:
> >> Yes. This is the showstopper for me and what caused me to quietly walk 
> >> away from D to begin with. In my opinion the fact that having two 
> >> runtimes is not only tolerable but acceptable as normal has and will 
> >> continue to hurt D1. We have Phobos, the "official" runtime and then we 
> >> have Tango, the "community" runtime. Moreover having two runtimes casts 
> >> doubt on the state of D as a whole; if we can't even decide on a uniform 
> >> runtime then people will wonder what other unknown traps of 
> >> incompleteness are in store. The fact that nobody bothered to work all 
> >> this out makes perfect sense- it's a lot more fun to be hashing out new 
> >> features- but if we intend to gain some semblance of mainstream respect 
> >> then it will be much easier with a single robust runtime.
> >
> > It has been bashed out for D2. Doing such changes to D1 will break 
> > everyone's D1 code, which destroys its mission of being stable.
> Really? I was under the impression that Tango will be ported to D2 to 
> continue the battle of standard libs but if I'm mistaken, then it's a lot 
> better than I originally figured. 

The druntime project is mostly a port of the Tango runtime to D2. On top of that, Don has ported the Tango math stuff to D2 Phobos. The stage is set for D2 Tango to be smaller and be installed alongside Phobos in D2.

There really is only three reasons I'm aware of that stop D2 Tango from existing today:
1. There is no practical way to write code that compiles with both D1 and D2
2.  There are bugs that limit how easily Tango can be ported to D2
3. D2 is a moving target

I've volunteered to fix D2 Tango when #3 is an issue, but that's not enough to make D2 a reality.
May 12, 2009
Re: What's the current state of D?
Walter Bright, el 11 de mayo a las 14:03 me escribiste:
> Leandro Lucarella wrote:
> >>Hoping is one thing, but submitting patches, bug reports, etc. to the tool developers is much more effective!
> >Sure, but people already done that and got ignore. I'm just glad you only
> >overlooked that mail and you're willing to help to iron out any licensing
> >issue.
> 
> I'm not the tool vendor for gdb. I also looked over the patches to gdb
> and don't see anything that requires approval or action from me.

Isn't the demangle code taken from DMDFE?

-- 
Leandro Lucarella (luca) | Blog colectivo: http://www.mazziblog.com.ar/blog/
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GPG Key: 5F5A8D05 (F8CD F9A7 BF00 5431 4145  104C 949E BFB6 5F5A 8D05)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Y2K
<Aztech_> hmm, nothing major has happend, what an anticlimax
<CaPS> yeah
<CaPS> really sucks
<CaPS> I expected for Australia to sink into the sea or something
<CaPS> but nnoooooooo
May 12, 2009
Re: What's the current state of D?
Frits van Bommel, el 11 de mayo a las 22:15 me escribiste:
> Leandro Lucarella wrote:
> >GDB people have spoken (I don't see you subscribed to the bug report so
> >I transcribe the comment from GDB):
> >--------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >For a patch this size we would need copyright assignments from all
> >the authors of the patch.  I would suggest emailing the gdb list
> >and asking for the paperwork; one of the maintainers will get you started.
> >Also, send the patch to the gdb-patches list, as described here:
> >http://sourceware.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/~checkout~/src/gdb/CONTRIBUTE?content-type=text/x-cvsweb-markup&cvsroot=src
> >gdb doesn't really use bugzilla for patch tracking, much.
> >I glanced quickly at the patch; it will need some reformatting and it will
> >need to be rebased to the current cvs.  It may require other changes, too,
> >but I didn't read that closely.
> >--------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >When all licensing issues are resolved I can do any adjustments to the
> >patch to comply with GDB coding style and rebase it to current CVS if the
> >original author is missing.
> 
> If the original author is missing, you have a bigger problem. He
> presumably needs to sign the paperwork they mentioned...

Yes, I meant if he is alive and willing to give the rights to GDB but
don't want to bother to fix the style and rebase the patch himself.

-- 
Leandro Lucarella (luca) | Blog colectivo: http://www.mazziblog.com.ar/blog/
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
GPG Key: 5F5A8D05 (F8CD F9A7 BF00 5431 4145  104C 949E BFB6 5F5A 8D05)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Skepticism is the beginning of failure
May 12, 2009
Re: What's the current state of D?
Leandro Lucarella wrote:
> Isn't the demangle code taken from DMDFE?

It didn't look like it, especially since the DMDFE doesn't have a 
demangler in it! The one in Phobos is explicitly listed as Public Domain.
May 12, 2009
Re: What's the current state of D?
Ameer Armaly wrote:
>> It has been bashed out for D2. Doing such changes to D1 will break 
>> everyone's D1 code, which destroys its mission of being stable.
> Really? I was under the impression that Tango will be ported to D2 to 
> continue the battle of standard libs but if I'm mistaken, then it's a lot 
> better than I originally figured. 

D2 has the "druntime" core which is designed to be the common root of 
Phobos and Tango. Switching to it involved a lot of changes to Phobos 
that broke existing user code.
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