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June 16, 2009
Re: Andrei writes "The Case for D"
Walter Bright escribió:
> http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/8stcr/the_case_for_d/

Great article!

I like how you mention a lot of D features and also a lot of tools built 
for it.

Just a few questions:

1. Will "alias ... this" be used to do "opCast"? It seems like it's 
working like that.
2. Will two "alias ... this" with the same type be disallowed?
3. What happens if you have "alias A this" and "alias B this" and A 
extends B, and you assign the instance to something of type B? Both A 
and B match.

(oh, I just read the page about "alias this" (I didn't know it was 
already impelemented) and it says you can only have one "alias this"... 
why? I think that limitation removes it's usefulness)

4. I tried to compile the sort example but it doesn't work. I'm sure 
it'll work some day in the future, but I'm not sure it's a good idea to 
not mention "this still doesn't work", because people might download the 
compiler, try it and say "the lied!" (something like that happened to me 
when I tried the example).
June 16, 2009
Re: Andrei writes "The Case for D"
Anders F Björklund wrote:

> 
> "Last but definitely not least, two windowing libraries complete the 
> language's offering quite spectacularly. The mature library DWT is a 
> direct port of Java's SWT. A newer development is that the immensely 
> popular Qt Software windowing library has recently released a D binding 
> (in alpha as of this writing)."
> 
> In other words, so long and thanks for all the fish: GDC and wxD ?
> 
> --anders

About the gui toolkits: Never mind the fact that GTKD has been working 
stable for a long time unlike the QT port. Best to include both to keep 
wars at bay in my opinion like kde vs gnome.
June 16, 2009
Re: Andrei writes "The Case for D"
Tim Matthews wrote:
>> "Last but definitely not least, two windowing libraries complete the 
>> language's offering quite spectacularly. The mature library DWT is a 
>> direct port of Java's SWT. A newer development is that the immensely 
>> popular Qt Software windowing library has recently released a D 
>> binding (in alpha as of this writing)."
>>
>> In other words, so long and thanks for all the fish: GDC and wxD ?
> 
> About the gui toolkits: Never mind the fact that GTKD has been working 
> stable for a long time unlike the QT port. Best to include both to keep 
> wars at bay in my opinion like kde vs gnome.

Even though there are native versions of GTK+ for Windows and Mac OS X,
I think wxWidgets looks slightly better (it does use GTK+ on Unix/X11)

As for the news article, to make it interesting I suppose that it has to
mention the latest and greatest ? And DWT _is_ standard DMD GUI library.

--anders
June 16, 2009
Re: Andrei writes "The Case for D"
Walter Bright, el 16 de junio a las 01:12 me escribiste:
> http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/8stcr/the_case_for_d/

Nice article. A few comments:

* If the article talks just about D2, I think it should be consistent. If
 it says that LDC is not finished because it doesn't support, I think it
 should say that as well for Decent, which has no D2 support. I don't
 know the state of the other tools mentioned, but I think that could
 confuse people. Same for Tango, in D2, when Tango will be finally
 ported, it will not compete anymore as an "standard library", they will
 be able to run side-by-side without problems. The problem with D1 is
 they compete for being the *runtime library*, which can be one and only
 one.

* I think alowing alias of complete expressions would be really nice. What
 does this has to do with the article? Because of this example:

	foreach (f; take(50, recurrence!("a[n-1] + a[n-2]")(0, 1)))
 		writeln(f);

 The example is just beautiful, but I think is a little cryptic, not very
 nice for code review (the Perl-style write-once, never read it again =).

 If you could do something like:

	alias recurrence!("a[n-1] + a[n-2]")(0, 1) fibonacci;
	foreach (f; take(50, fibonacci))
 		writeln(f);

 Ok, that's not a oneliner anymore, but I think is far more readable
 (which, maybe, is not what you want for showing the power of the
 language/stdlib using a oneliner but is what you want for long-term
 real-life development =).


-- 
Leandro Lucarella (luca) | Blog colectivo: http://www.mazziblog.com.ar/blog/
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GPG Key: 5F5A8D05 (F8CD F9A7 BF00 5431 4145  104C 949E BFB6 5F5A 8D05)
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June 16, 2009
Re: Andrei writes "The Case for D"
On Tue, 16 Jun 2009 05:00:46 -0400, Anders F Björklund <afb@algonet.se>  
wrote:

> Walter Bright wrote:
>> http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/8stcr/the_case_for_d/
>
> http://www.ddj.com/hpc-high-performance-computing/217801225 says:
>
> "There are two major versions of the language -- D1 and D2.
> This article focuses on D2 exclusively."
>
> "The official D compiler is available for free off digitalmars.com on  
> major desktop platforms (Windows, Mac, and Linux). Other implementations  
> are underway, notably including an a .NET port and one using the LLVM  
> infrastructure as backend."
>
> "Last but definitely not least, two windowing libraries complete the  
> language's offering quite spectacularly. The mature library DWT is a  
> direct port of Java's SWT. A newer development is that the immensely  
> popular Qt Software windowing library has recently released a D binding  
> (in alpha as of this writing)."
>
> In other words, so long and thanks for all the fish: GDC and wxD ?
>
> --anders

Not to mention DFL. Also, DWT requires Tango and doesn't support phobos,  
so it doesn't "complete the language's offering quite spectacularly".
June 16, 2009
Re: Andrei writes "The Case for D"
MIURA Masahiro wrote:
> Walter Bright wrote:
>> http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/8stcr/the_case_for_d/
> 
> A few D fans in Japan are considering translating this article.
> Is it OK to translate and publish it?
> Whom should we ask permission of?

Konnichiwa! I hereby grant you permission to translate the article.
Please let me know when you're done, I'll link to the translation.

Andrei
June 16, 2009
Re: Andrei writes "The Case for D"
Tim Matthews wrote:
> Anders F Björklund wrote:
> 
>>
>> "Last but definitely not least, two windowing libraries complete the 
>> language's offering quite spectacularly. The mature library DWT is a 
>> direct port of Java's SWT. A newer development is that the immensely 
>> popular Qt Software windowing library has recently released a D 
>> binding (in alpha as of this writing)."
>>
>> In other words, so long and thanks for all the fish: GDC and wxD ?
>>
>> --anders
> 
> About the gui toolkits: Never mind the fact that GTKD has been working 
> stable for a long time unlike the QT port. Best to include both to keep 
> wars at bay in my opinion like kde vs gnome.

You might want to toss in DFL, too. It doesn't compile on the latest 
anything without (a little) work, but it's a stable GUI library with a 
graphical designer that was designed from the ground up with D in mind.
June 16, 2009
Re: Andrei writes "The Case for D"
Robert Jacques wrote:

> Not to mention DFL. Also, DWT requires Tango and doesn't support phobos, 
> so it doesn't "complete the language's offering quite spectacularly".

I think DFL has also been around for some time, so not news either ?
As I recall DFL wasn't very portable, so I mostly looked at MinWin...

Wiki4D had the list, http://prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?GuiLibraries
By the way QtD also requires Tango, while "D2 support is on its way".

--anders
June 16, 2009
Re: Andrei writes "The Case for D"
Robert Fraser wrote:
> Tim Matthews wrote:
>> Anders F Björklund wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> "Last but definitely not least, two windowing libraries complete the 
>>> language's offering quite spectacularly. The mature library DWT is a 
>>> direct port of Java's SWT. A newer development is that the immensely 
>>> popular Qt Software windowing library has recently released a D 
>>> binding (in alpha as of this writing)."
>>>
>>> In other words, so long and thanks for all the fish: GDC and wxD ?
>>>
>>> --anders
>>
>> About the gui toolkits: Never mind the fact that GTKD has been working 
>> stable for a long time unlike the QT port. Best to include both to 
>> keep wars at bay in my opinion like kde vs gnome.
> 
> You might want to toss in DFL, too. It doesn't compile on the latest 
> anything without (a little) work, but it's a stable GUI library with a 
> graphical designer that was designed from the ground up with D in mind.

This is excellent information, you may want to post it to reddit too. 
Speaking of reddit, I noticed there are forty-something negative votes 
but only one negative comment. From direct experience (sigh) I know that 
people who think an article sucks usually are also very inclined to 
voice their opinion (even more so than people who think an article was 
good!) There must be a study in behavioral psych somewhere. So these 
votes seem to reflect a prior dislike to anything D and the immediate 
negative voting of anything related to it. I wonder how such this could 
be addressed.


Andrei
June 16, 2009
Re: Andrei writes "The Case for D"
Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
> Konnichiwa! I hereby grant you permission to translate the article.
> Please let me know when you're done, I'll link to the translation.

Thank you, I will contact you when finished.

Turkish translation already done!?  What a quick job.
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