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A few questions
Jun 11
Chris
Jun 11
aberba
Jun 11
mw
Jun 19
Chris
Jun 23
Chris
Jun 25
JN
Jun 25
aberba
Jun 29
aliak
Jun 27
Chris
June 11
I have a few questions I hope somebody from the D Language Foundation can answer. Here they are:

1. The website dlang.org states the following (https://dlang.org/foundation/about.html)

The officers of the D Language Foundation are:
    • Walter Bright, President
    • Tudor Andrei Cristian Alexandrescu, Vice President and Treasurer
    • Ali Çehreli, Secretary

Is this information still accurate? Wasn’t Attila Neves to hold one of the positions above?

2. Is there an overview or an annual financial report where donators and contributors can see what the money is used for?

3. Has the page https://dlang.org/orgs-using-d.html been updated, i.e. are there any newcomers or are there any companies that are still listed but have actually stopped using D?

4. Are there plans for D3, i.e. a version of D that will get rid of old baggage and keep the great features, and will also come with state of the art tooling?

Thank you very much!
June 11
On Thursday, 11 June 2020 at 14:04:47 UTC, Chris wrote:
> I have a few questions I hope somebody from the D Language Foundation can answer. Here they are:
>
> 1. The website dlang.org states the following (https://dlang.org/foundation/about.html)
>
> The officers of the D Language Foundation are:
>     • Walter Bright, President
>     • Tudor Andrei Cristian Alexandrescu, Vice President and Treasurer
>     • Ali Çehreli, Secretary
>
> Is this information still accurate? Wasn’t Attila Neves to hold one of the positions above?
Its possibly an oversight. I'm not sure if anyone is in-charge though. I know Seb to be one of the Web guys.


>
> 2. Is there an overview or an annual financial report where donators and contributors can see what the money is used for?
Interesting question

> 3. Has the page https://dlang.org/orgs-using-d.html been updated, i.e. are there any newcomers or are there any companies that are still listed but have actually stopped using D?
Ditto

> 4. Are there plans for D3, i.e. a version of D that will get rid of old baggage and keep the great features, and will also come with state of the art tooling?
I don't think so, Walter recently said something about it...that he would like to see someone step up and do the work. Personally I'll say we're barely through what's possible with D2. Still waiting for the Killer App™

D2 was supposed to be the perfect D, not sure D3 will be much different. Although I agree we've learnt some lessons from D2, I feel we've barely scratched the surface of D2

> Lawrence Aberba
> (Cus everyone else does it)
June 11
On Thursday, 11 June 2020 at 17:55:59 UTC, aberba wrote:
> On Thursday, 11 June 2020 at 14:04:47 UTC, Chris wrote:
>> I have a few questions I hope somebody from the D Language Foundation can answer.

To the OP: perhaps questions to the foundation are best addressed at the e-mail address listed on the page that you quoted.

>> Here they are:
>>
>> 1. The website dlang.org states the following (https://dlang.org/foundation/about.html)
>>
>> The officers of the D Language Foundation are:
>>     • Walter Bright, President
>>     • Tudor Andrei Cristian Alexandrescu, Vice President and Treasurer
>>     • Ali Çehreli, Secretary
>>
>> Is this information still accurate? Wasn’t Attila Neves to hold one of the positions above?
> Its possibly an oversight. I'm not sure if anyone is in-charge though. I know Seb to be one of the Web guys.

It is not an oversight. He passed on a number of responsibilities but still serves the Foundation. https://youtu.be/cpTAtiboIDs?t=3049

>> 2. Is there an overview or an annual financial report where donators and contributors can see what the money is used for?
> Interesting question

Being a 501(c) organization their accounting is subject to external audits. There is no public financial report that I know of, but then again donations are typically done to a specific purpose.

>> 3. Has the page https://dlang.org/orgs-using-d.html been updated, i.e. are there any newcomers or are there any companies that are still listed but have actually stopped using D?
> Ditto

It is maintained: https://github.com/dlang/dlang.org/commits/master/orgs-using-d.dd

-- Bastiaan.
June 11
On Thursday, 11 June 2020 at 14:04:47 UTC, Chris wrote:
> 3. Has the page https://dlang.org/orgs-using-d.html been updated, i.e. are there any newcomers or are there any companies that are still listed but have actually stopped using D?

Many of the project has github link, if you click thru, e.g.:

https://github.com/eBay/tsv-utils
https://github.com/netflix/vectorflow
https://github.com/AuburnSounds/dplug

You will see they are under active dev, and with recent commits days, even hours ago.

This is a pleasant surprise to me too :-)

Maybe https://dlang.org/orgs-using-d.html should also pull that information from github to show the latest update of each project.

June 11
On Thursday, 11 June 2020 at 21:33:22 UTC, Bastiaan Veelo wrote:
> Being a 501(c) organization their accounting is subject to external audits. There is no public financial report that I know of, but then again donations are typically done to a specific purpose.

the summary page of the tax return should be available upon request, the form 990
June 19
On Thursday, 11 June 2020 at 14:04:47 UTC, Chris wrote:
> I have a few questions I hope somebody from the D Language Foundation can answer. Here they are:
>
> 1. The website dlang.org states the following (https://dlang.org/foundation/about.html)
>
> The officers of the D Language Foundation are:
>     • Walter Bright, President
>     • Tudor Andrei Cristian Alexandrescu, Vice President and Treasurer
>     • Ali Çehreli, Secretary
>
> Is this information still accurate? Wasn’t Attila Neves to hold one of the positions above?
>
> 2. Is there an overview or an annual financial report where donators and contributors can see what the money is used for?
>
> 3. Has the page https://dlang.org/orgs-using-d.html been updated, i.e. are there any newcomers or are there any companies that are still listed but have actually stopped using D?
>
> 4. Are there plans for D3, i.e. a version of D that will get rid of old baggage and keep the great features, and will also come with state of the art tooling?
>
> Thank you very much!

No answer from the D Language Foundation? Walter, Andrei, Ali, Atila (?), Mike Parker (?)?
June 19
On 6/19/20 9:44 AM, Chris wrote:
> On Thursday, 11 June 2020 at 14:04:47 UTC, Chris wrote:
>> I have a few questions I hope somebody from the D Language Foundation can answer. Here they are:
>>
>> 1. The website dlang.org states the following (https://dlang.org/foundation/about.html)
>>
>> The officers of the D Language Foundation are:
>>     • Walter Bright, President
>>     • Tudor Andrei Cristian Alexandrescu, Vice President and Treasurer
>>     • Ali Çehreli, Secretary
>>
>> Is this information still accurate? Wasn’t Attila Neves to hold one of the positions above?
>>
>> 2. Is there an overview or an annual financial report where donators and contributors can see what the money is used for?
>>
>> 3. Has the page https://dlang.org/orgs-using-d.html been updated, i.e. are there any newcomers or are there any companies that are still listed but have actually stopped using D?
>>
>> 4. Are there plans for D3, i.e. a version of D that will get rid of old baggage and keep the great features, and will also come with state of the art tooling?
>>
>> Thank you very much!
> 
> No answer from the D Language Foundation? Walter, Andrei, Ali, Atila (?), Mike Parker (?)?

Thanks for asking. These are reasonable questions to ask; however, your posting history has caused us concern that this is a provocation. Once we reply in any way, the answer can be used to pick a fight (I don't agree with this policy, I demand more information on that etc), all framed as an exchange that we must engage in lest we have shady things to hide. We don't. Also we can't commit to hanging out on the forums and satisfactorily engage with anyone with an Internet connection and a zest for stirring stuff up.

That said, even a provocation may embed good ideas. Some of our documentation is publicly accessible by law. Of course more details are better for our existing and prospective donors. We have long looked into providing detailed reports on the use of financing (we also did some in the past vision documents), the main difficulty being finding the time to compile the information. Mike is working on that. The answers to 1, 2, and 4 are as expected - no change, updated as per our knowledge, and no.
June 23
On Friday, 19 June 2020 at 14:41:58 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote
On Friday, 19 June 2020 at 14:41:58 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
>> 
>> No answer from the D Language Foundation? Walter, Andrei, Ali, Atila (?), Mike Parker (?)?
>
> Thanks for asking. These are reasonable questions to ask; however, your posting history has caused us concern that this is a provocation. Once we reply in any way, the answer can be used to pick a fight (I don't agree with this policy, I demand more information on that etc), all framed as an exchange that we must engage in lest we have shady things to hide. We don't. Also we can't commit to hanging out on the forums and satisfactorily engage with anyone with an Internet connection and a zest for stirring stuff up.

First of all, thanks for your answer.

Allow me to say something regarding my "posting history". It certainly didn't help that members of the D Language Foundation were stonewalling, answering in an evasive manner or even twisting my words. So it shouldn't come as a surprise when you get reactions that appear disgruntled, I'm not the only (ex-)member this has happened to (some left D altogether, understandably so). And if you go back a bit further in my "posting history" you will see that I was quite happy with D (for years). It wasn't until I noticed that things were going seriously awry (instead of getting better, as one would have expected after the advent of the D Foundation), and that I feared for the future of my software written in D that I started to address certain issues that deeply worried me (e.g. code breakage, mobile platforms, autodecoding / string handling). I had "skin in the game" but was met with indifference as my concerns were not "valid" or important concerns as far as the leadership was concerned.

It doesn't help to just ignore / stonewall a user, if you don't like the questions / issues raised or think they're unimportant. This will only make things worse and lead to the suspicion that there are "shady things" going on, and think of the impression others might get, people from the outside who are interested in D.

I also object to the expression "framed as an exchange" which implies dishonesty and trolling. A few simple and _honest_ answers are enough. Being evasive in your answers is not. How am I supposed to know if I should "watch this space" or not.

> That said, even a provocation may embed good ideas. Some of our documentation is publicly accessible by law. Of course more details are better for our existing and prospective donors. We have long looked into providing detailed reports on the use of financing (we also did some in the past vision documents), the main difficulty being finding the time to compile the information. Mike is working on that. The answers to 1, 2, and 4 are as expected - no change, updated as per our knowledge, and no.

Now there's an answer at last! And no, my questions weren't supposed to be "provocations". I'm certainly not the only one who'd like to have a general picture of how the money is spent, so more transparency is definitely a good idea. And who knows, maybe people in the community / investors can come up with ideas how to make better use of the resources available, especially now that DConf didn't happen, there must be additional resources that can be used for tooling, cross-platform development or even D3.

As for D3, a pity there are no plans for it, it galls me that D should remain in its current state as it undoubtedly has good features.
June 25
On Tuesday, 23 June 2020 at 16:57:04 UTC, Chris wrote:
>
> As for D3, a pity there are no plans for it, it galls me that D should remain in its current state as it undoubtedly has good features.

What would your D3 contain? The problem is that many people have different vision for the "better D" and they are often incompatible. Some people for example would like to make @safe the default, some people would like to drop OOP, some people would like to drop the GC, many different ideas going on around.
June 25
On Thursday, 25 June 2020 at 13:18:22 UTC, JN wrote:
> On Tuesday, 23 June 2020 at 16:57:04 UTC, Chris wrote:
>>
>> As for D3, a pity there are no plans for it, it galls me that D should remain in its current state as it undoubtedly has good features.
>
> What would your D3 contain? The problem is that many people have different vision for the "better D" and they are often incompatible. Some people for example would like to make @safe the default, some people would like to drop OOP, some people would like to drop the GC, many different ideas going on around.

And some like D2 but cleaned out.
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