December 05
On Monday, 4 December 2017 at 21:22:39 UTC, Guillaume Piolat wrote:
> On Friday, 1 December 2017 at 18:56:50 UTC, WebFreak001 wrote:
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> I made a public survey (everyone can look at the responses) and it would be great if you took some time and answered it. I think it will greatly benefit D as a whole if we had more anonymous data on users. I'm also open for changing some questions if there is confusion.
>>
>> https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdPFx9ebHJ05QSW1VypBsQPw-1RbZ1v8FMgo1su6NvN6VErBw/viewform
>
> How to see the results if you have already filled it?

Hi i don't if it based on a token so it may be invalid when you'll read this:

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdPFx9ebHJ05QSW1VypBsQPw-1RbZ1v8FMgo1su6NvN6VErBw/viewanalytics

but working for now (9 AM - Paris local time)
December 07
On Saturday, 2 December 2017 at 19:11:31 UTC, Dmitry Olshansky wrote:

>
>
> Truth be told I find survey largely irrelevant.
> What my gender or some such have to do with D? Or my job? What do we want to understand from that - “teenagers w/o like D language more?” or some such nonsense?
>
> I despise demographic style surveys, ask technical aspects instead, it would be 10x more informative.

Yeah, it's too personal (job, company, gender). Questions should concentrate on technical aspects.

Btw, the country I reside in is not on the list: Ireland. It's neither listed as Ireland nor as Republic of Ireland (the official name in English) nor as Éire / Poblacht na hÉireann (the official name in Irish). I checked with the search function to be sure to be sure :-) I didn't know Ireland was so unknown, unless, of course, I'm supposed to choose "Great Britain".


December 07
On Thursday, 7 December 2017 at 14:31:01 UTC, Chris wrote:
> On Saturday, 2 December 2017 at 19:11:31 UTC, Dmitry Olshansky wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Truth be told I find survey largely irrelevant.
>> What my gender or some such have to do with D? Or my job? What do we want to understand from that - “teenagers w/o like D language more?” or some such nonsense?
>>
>> I despise demographic style surveys, ask technical aspects instead, it would be 10x more informative.
>
> Yeah, it's too personal (job, company, gender). Questions should concentrate on technical aspects.

Survey techniques are a science after all. Google provides you the tools but without methodology it's peanuts. I suppose that this survey just allows you to locate yourself among the community, although it was already well known that D is more used in Europe and mostly by adults. I mean that the results cannot be used to change the development guide lines.

Only interesting Q:
- How did you learn D ? : yes, it shows for example that tour.dlang.org has gained its place.
- What is your PRIMARY /SECONDARY area of development where you focus on D ? maybe interesting to detect something that's not worth improving in the language. But bad formulation.
- How would you rate your experience with D compared to other languages? Yes, may show if D is generating D-language-centered people.

and few others. Average SLOC per project would have been interesting too. TIme spent per day.

December 08
On Thursday, 7 December 2017 at 18:22:46 UTC, user1234 wrote:

>
> Survey techniques are a science after all. Google provides you the tools but without methodology it's peanuts. I suppose that this survey just allows you to locate yourself among the community, although it was already well known that D is more used in Europe and mostly by adults. I mean that the results cannot be used to change the development guide lines.
>

Yep. D seems to be quite popular in Europe. I wonder why that is, given that it originated in the USA and people in the States are more open to new technologies. What were the technical and social factors at work here? Maybe D wasn't fancy enough to be taken seriously in the USA and maybe people from outside the USA (not only in Europe) looked at it and said "Hold on, that's something interesting...and we can contribute to it." D certainly struck a chord with many programmers around the globe, but what is it exactly? (Please no jokes about D major or D minor chords now ;)
December 08
On 12/08/2017 05:53 AM, Chris wrote:
> 
> Yep. D seems to be quite popular in Europe. I wonder why that is, given that it originated in the USA and people in the States are more open to new technologies. What were the technical and social factors at work here? Maybe D wasn't fancy enough to be taken seriously in the USA and maybe people from outside the USA (not only in Europe) looked at it and said "Hold on, that's something interesting...and we can contribute to it." D certainly struck a chord with many programmers around the globe, but what is it exactly? (Please no jokes about D major or D minor chords now ;)

Speaking as a US citizen, it's long been my observation that americans (and I only mean collectively, of course, it's difficult to generalize down to individuals since that varies greatly) tend to be far more conservative than one would assume them to be.

Just as one example: The various genres of electronic music. Always succeeded far better in europe than they ever did the US. Americans would hear it and just bitch about "soulless", "doesn't require musical talent" and other such [nonsence]. But turn on (for example) BBC's Top Gear and they had recognizable Prodigy, Crystal Method, etc all over the place. And heck, most of Fluke's catalog isn't even available in the US. That sort of stuff just doesn't sell very well over here. Americans like their "three main acoustic cords" and steady simple 4/4 beats.

Even "silicon vally" isn't quite so much "open to new technology" as it is driven primarily by buzz and popularity.

And then there's the last presidential election, which, and I don't mean this to be snarky, just honest observation: it clearly demonstrated there's far more white tra...*cough*...umm..."ultra-conservatives" here than anyone ever thought.

From what I hear, we're one of the few remaining industrialized nations that has capital punishment. Whether that's good/bad is completely beside the point here, the point being: Either way, it's undeniably conservative.

Despite perhaps tipping my hand a bit, I really don't mean any of that as ranting at all, just illustrating that it DOES make sense that europe would be more open to D than the US:

Because the US *is* paradoxically much more conservative than one would expect from a relatively young country that produces as much software and electronics as it does. Whether that conservativeness is good/bad/other is open to opinion, but either way, it is what it is, and I think D's higher rate of success elsewhere can be traced to that.
December 09
On Friday, 8 December 2017 at 22:22:14 UTC, Nick Sabalausky (Abscissa) wrote:
> On 12/08/2017 05:53 AM, Chris wrote:
>> [...]
>
> Speaking as a US citizen, it's long been my observation that americans (and I only mean collectively, of course, it's difficult to generalize down to individuals since that varies greatly) tend to be far more conservative than one would assume them to be.
>
> Just as one example: The various genres of electronic music. Always succeeded far better in europe than they ever did the US. Americans would hear it and just bitch about "soulless", "doesn't require musical talent" and other such [nonsence]. But turn on (for example) BBC's Top Gear and they had recognizable Prodigy, Crystal Method, etc all over the place. And heck, most of Fluke's catalog isn't even available in the US. That sort of stuff just doesn't sell very well over here. Americans like their "three main acoustic cords" and steady simple 4/4 beats.
>
> Even "silicon vally" isn't quite so much "open to new technology" as it is driven primarily by buzz and popularity.
>
> And then there's the last presidential election, which, and I don't mean this to be snarky, just honest observation: it clearly demonstrated there's far more white tra...*cough*...umm..."ultra-conservatives" here than anyone ever thought.
>
> From what I hear, we're one of the few remaining industrialized nations that has capital punishment. Whether that's good/bad is completely beside the point here, the point being: Either way, it's undeniably conservative.
>
> Despite perhaps tipping my hand a bit, I really don't mean any of that as ranting at all, just illustrating that it DOES make sense that europe would be more open to D than the US:
>
> Because the US *is* paradoxically much more conservative than one would expect from a relatively young country that produces as much software and electronics as it does. Whether that conservativeness is good/bad/other is open to opinion, but either way, it is what it is, and I think D's higher rate of success elsewhere can be traced to that.

Isn't that just culture (music) how popular is American Country music in Europe?  I have met one person that liked it.  Trump is hardly an ultra-conservative (not to mention the various groups of conservatism social, fiscal, neo, etc..).  Alot of the whites u mentioned voted for Obama last time around and are just scared of globalism and knew the alternative would push further down that path.  Not all D users look at forums and while I do agree their are far more users visible in Europe that doesn't mean it's not used here as well.
December 09
On 12/08/2017 08:00 PM, SomeRandomUser wrote:
> 
> Isn't that just culture (music) how popular is American Country music in Europe?  I have met one person that liked it.  Trump is hardly an ultra-conservative (not to mention the various groups of conservatism social, fiscal, neo, etc..).  Alot of the whites u mentioned voted for Obama last time around and are just scared of globalism and knew the alternative would push further down that path.  Not all D users look at forums and while I do agree their are far more users visible in Europe that doesn't mean it's not used here as well.

All the details are certainly debatable, and I won't claim to be well-versed enough in sociology, politics, etc to get into such details (nor would I really want to in a D.announce sub-thread - apologies if that sounds like back-peddling), but it's just a certain theme I've noticed that, from this insider at least, in my personal observation the country doesn't seem to be quite as progressive as it may appear to be (or claim to be), or as one might assume it to be (the super bowl nipple thing is another example), and my hypothesis is that could account for the US vs Europe D-uptake discrepency. But, of course one thing that *is* certain is that the US has a lot of both ulta-liberal, ultra-conservative, and everythintg in-between (and probably plenty of extremes on some other axes as well!). So grain of salt in hand, in any case, it's just a thought.
December 09
On Thursday, 7 December 2017 at 14:31:01 UTC, Chris wrote:
 I didn't know Ireland was so
> unknown, unless, of course, I'm supposed to choose "Great Britain".

I also hated myself for clicking Great Britain :-)
December 09
On Friday, 8 December 2017 at 22:22:14 UTC, Nick Sabalausky (Abscissa) wrote:
> On 12/08/2017 05:53 AM, Chris wrote:
>> 
>> Yep. D seems to be quite popular in Europe. I wonder why that is, given that it originated in the USA and people in the States are more open to new technologies. What were the technical and social factors at work here? Maybe D wasn't fancy enough to be taken seriously in the USA and maybe people from outside the USA (not only in Europe) looked at it and said "Hold on, that's something interesting...and we can contribute to it." D certainly struck a chord with many programmers around the globe, but what is it exactly? (Please no jokes about D major or D minor chords now ;)
>
> Speaking as a US citizen, it's long been my observation that americans (and I only mean collectively, of course, it's difficult to generalize down to individuals since that varies greatly) tend to be far more conservative than one would assume them to be.
>
> Just as one example: The various genres of electronic music. Always succeeded far better in europe than they ever did the US. Americans would hear it and just bitch about "soulless", "doesn't require musical talent" and other such [nonsence]. But turn on (for example) BBC's Top Gear and they had recognizable Prodigy, Crystal Method, etc all over the place. And heck, most of Fluke's catalog isn't even available in the US. That sort of stuff just doesn't sell very well over here. Americans like their "three main acoustic cords" and steady simple 4/4 beats.
>
> Even "silicon vally" isn't quite so much "open to new technology" as it is driven primarily by buzz and popularity.
>
> And then there's the last presidential election, which, and I don't mean this to be snarky, just honest observation: it clearly demonstrated there's far more white tra...*cough*...umm..."ultra-conservatives" here than anyone ever thought.
>
> From what I hear, we're one of the few remaining industrialized nations that has capital punishment. Whether that's good/bad is completely beside the point here, the point being: Either way, it's undeniably conservative.
>
> Despite perhaps tipping my hand a bit, I really don't mean any of that as ranting at all, just illustrating that it DOES make sense that europe would be more open to D than the US:
>
> Because the US *is* paradoxically much more conservative than one would expect from a relatively young country that produces as much software and electronics as it does. Whether that conservativeness is good/bad/other is open to opinion, but either way, it is what it is, and I think D's higher rate of success elsewhere can be traced to that.

There are interesting stuff in your comment but i think we're going off-topic.
Let's no go too far, the point, initially, is that survey is not good.
In no way it should be used to split ourselves.
6 days ago
On 12/09/2017 07:58 AM, wobbles wrote:
> On Thursday, 7 December 2017 at 14:31:01 UTC, Chris wrote:
>   I didn't know Ireland was so
>> unknown, unless, of course, I'm supposed to choose "Great Britain".
> 
> I also hated myself for clicking Great Britain :-)

As an outsider, I'm curious about this. My (perhaps innacurate?) understanding was that "Great Britain" was more a geographical term referring to everything on the islands rather than a political boundary (as opposed to "UK" which is purely a political concept and includes some, but not all, of the countries on the same islands). Is that not enitrely correct? Or is that exactly the the part that's uncomfortable - that it's a "Country" field which lacks the actual country name and only offers a geographic collection in its place?
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