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July 03, 2010
Re: D web site facelift
Michel Fortin wrote:
> The problem is that the translator strips the line breaks. But that's 
> still an improvement over the older "translated" code, where half the 
> identifiers are changed, braces are changed to parenthesis and some 
> newlines are removed randomly.
> 
> I suggest you add <code> anyway. At least this way Google can improve 
> their translator engine and it'll then work fine.

Makes sense.
July 03, 2010
Re: D web site facelift
On Jul 4, 10 04:57, Walter Bright wrote:
> Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
>> Walter Bright wrote:
>>> Walter Bright wrote:
>>>> Michel Fortin wrote:
>>>>> On a side note, I've noticed on other websites that Google
>>>>> Translation doesn't attempt to translate code inside a <code>
>>>>> element. So I would suggest the website uses <pre><code> ...
>>>>> </code></pre> for its code blocks, and <code>...</code> for
>>>>> keywords and other code-related terms in the text. That could
>>>>> actually make the translation useful.
>>>>
>>>> This must be new, it didn't use to do that. I'll take advantage of it!
>>>
>>> Sadly, it doesn't work, as it strips all the newlines out, putting
>>> your code all on one line. Bah :-(
>>
>> How about nesting them the other way around? <code><pre>...</pre></code>?
>
> I tried that, too. It recognizes the newlines, and then translates the
> code. Back to square 1.

You could use <pre class="notranslate"> to suppress translation. It's 
documented in http://translate.google.com/support/.
July 03, 2010
Re: D web site facelift
Walter Bright wrote:
> Nick Sabalausky wrote:
>> "Walter Bright" <newshound2@digitalmars.com> wrote in message
>> news:i0nula$bk7$1@digitalmars.com...
>>> Nick Sabalausky wrote:
>>>> I didn't see any of the glitchiness or google-translate stuff that
>>>> other people saw (on IE7, FF2, or Iron). Although, from the
>>>> screenshot someone else posted of the translate-bar, I'm glad it's
>>>> not showing up for me. (I really wish people would stop loading up
>>>> their pages with Google's crap.)
>>> I like the translate widget! I've always been enamored with the idea
>>> of a universal translator.
>>
>> There are browser plugins and websites that can handle translation of
>> *any* page, not just pages that the page author has manually embedded
>> it into. And they do it without gunking up the page with unnecessary
>> JS bloat that not everyone's going to need.
> 
> I understand your point, I just like to have it right there, and not
> have to go get toolbars and plugins for every browser I use. Also,
> nobody ever complained about it before - why now is it suddenly an issue?

	This is the first time I've seen a web site with this google
translate bar on top. For example, the old (current) digitalmars
site doesn't have it. Personally, that's why I never complained
before: the issue wasn't there before...

		Jerome
-- 
mailto:jeberger@free.fr
http://jeberger.free.fr
Jabber: jeberger@jabber.fr
July 03, 2010
Re: D web site facelift
On Fri, 02 Jul 2010 17:55:33 -0700, Walter Bright wrote:

> David Gileadi was kind enough to spend some time redesigning the look of
> the D web site. A preview of it is up on d-programming-language.org.
> This isn't about the content, just the look/style/feel.
> 
> Comments welcome.
> 
> Please don't put links to anything other than the front page yet, as the
> organization may change.

I like it.
But the translate widget is a bit annoying because it's
quite dominant. Like a coke can in a zen garden.

Can we access those functions (add to wiki, translate page)
with two smallish icons? (with some hover text).
The translation icon could even be removed when English is no the default 
language.
July 03, 2010
Re: D web site facelift
Walter Bright wrote:
> Nick Sabalausky wrote:
>> "Walter Bright" <newshound2@digitalmars.com> wrote in message 
>> news:i0nula$bk7$1@digitalmars.com...
>>> Nick Sabalausky wrote:
>>>> I didn't see any of the glitchiness or google-translate stuff that 
>>>> other people saw (on IE7, FF2, or Iron). Although, from the 
>>>> screenshot someone else posted of the translate-bar, I'm glad it's 
>>>> not showing up for me. (I really wish people would stop loading up 
>>>> their pages with Google's crap.)
>>> I like the translate widget! I've always been enamored with the idea 
>>> of a universal translator.
>>
>> There are browser plugins and websites that can handle translation of 
>> *any* page, not just pages that the page author has manually embedded 
>> it into. And they do it without gunking up the page with unnecessary 
>> JS bloat that not everyone's going to need.
> 
> I understand your point, I just like to have it right there, and not 
> have to go get toolbars and plugins for every browser I use. Also, 
> nobody ever complained about it before - why now is it suddenly an issue?

People don't need plugins to translate a page. All they need do is 
navigate to translate.google.com, enter the URL in a box, select a 
language, and click a button. My logs show that visitors to my blogs 
(including The One With D) do that frequently without any prompting from me.

Anyway, if you're going to keep the box it might be a good idea to 
relocate it. I suggest the bottom of the menu. That way it won't 
interfere with any text when it expands. Either that, or give it a div 
with a fixed height large enough to hold it when it's expanded.
July 04, 2010
Re: D web site facelift
"Mike Parker" <aldacron@gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:i0ohtk$19am$1@digitalmars.com...
> Walter Bright wrote:
>> Nick Sabalausky wrote:
>>> "Walter Bright" <newshound2@digitalmars.com> wrote in message 
>>> news:i0nula$bk7$1@digitalmars.com...
>>>> Nick Sabalausky wrote:
>>>>> I didn't see any of the glitchiness or google-translate stuff that 
>>>>> other people saw (on IE7, FF2, or Iron). Although, from the screenshot 
>>>>> someone else posted of the translate-bar, I'm glad it's not showing up 
>>>>> for me. (I really wish people would stop loading up their pages with 
>>>>> Google's crap.)
>>>> I like the translate widget! I've always been enamored with the idea of 
>>>> a universal translator.
>>>
>>> There are browser plugins and websites that can handle translation of 
>>> *any* page, not just pages that the page author has manually embedded it 
>>> into. And they do it without gunking up the page with unnecessary JS 
>>> bloat that not everyone's going to need.
>>
>> I understand your point, I just like to have it right there, and not have 
>> to go get toolbars and plugins for every browser I use. Also, nobody ever 
>> complained about it before - why now is it suddenly an issue?
>
> People don't need plugins to translate a page. All they need do is 
> navigate to translate.google.com, enter the URL in a box, select a 
> language, and click a button. My logs show that visitors to my blogs 
> (including The One With D) do that frequently without any prompting from 
> me.
>

The browser plugins are generally a one-click way to send the url directly 
either google translate or babelfish. I don't think there's a way you could 
tell from your logs whether they're doing that manually or if a plugin is 
doing it for them.
July 04, 2010
Re: D web site facelift : repost
Well, the last try didn't work.  Trying this post again.
On 07/02/2010 06:16 PM, Adam Ruppe wrote:
> On 7/2/10, Walter Bright<newshound2@digitalmars.com>  wrote:
>> What browser are you using? In IE it renders well, and I'm picky 
about that
>> sort of thing.
>
> I tried both Konqueror and Firefox and found the body text to look
> bad, worse in Firefox (probably because I set konqueror to ignore font
> sizes specified in websites, but the color there didn't make me happy
> either).
>
> On Internet Explorer, the size looks OK, but the menu text has poor
> contrast. The mouse hover color looks better than the regular color.

I'm using Firefox without problems in reading the text (on Linux), 
but... well...

The design certainly looks more elegant, but it feels "noisier", and it 
feels like it would take more time to locate the information one was 
looking for.

This looks more like a marketing publication, and those things aren't 
designed to convey much information.  Just the feel of information.

I think there's a good reason that manuals are traditionally as simple 
as possible, and it's to cut down on the time it takes to recognize what 
you're looking for.
July 04, 2010
Re: D web site facelift
On 07/03/2010 01:51 PM, Walter Bright wrote:
> Nick Sabalausky wrote:
>> "Walter Bright" <newshound2@digitalmars.com> wrote in message
>> news:i0nula$bk7$1@digitalmars.com...
>>> Nick Sabalausky wrote:
>>>> I didn't see any of the glitchiness or google-translate stuff that
>>>> other people saw (on IE7, FF2, or Iron). Although, from the
>>>> screenshot someone else posted of the translate-bar, I'm glad it's
>>>> not showing up for me. (I really wish people would stop loading up
>>>> their pages with Google's crap.)
>>> I like the translate widget! I've always been enamored with the idea
>>> of a universal translator.
>>
>> There are browser plugins and websites that can handle translation of
>> *any* page, not just pages that the page author has manually embedded
>> it into. And they do it without gunking up the page with unnecessary
>> JS bloat that not everyone's going to need.
>
> I understand your point, I just like to have it right there, and not
> have to go get toolbars and plugins for every browser I use. Also,
> nobody ever complained about it before - why now is it suddenly an issue?

Actually, I *did* complain about it before...in the context of 
downloaded documentation.  The timing sometimes makes doing searches 
over multiple pages, when you don't remember exactly where something was 
documented, painful.  Sufficiently so that I hand modify downloaded 
documentation to remove it, and any other scripts that I notice causing 
a slowdown.  (Translation is worst, but there are a couple of others 
that are occasionally obtrusive.)

OTOH, if you're already downloading the page from the net that should be 
much less of a problem...you're already slowed down.
July 04, 2010
Re: D web site facelift
Walter Bright wrote:
> Nick Sabalausky wrote:
>> "Walter Bright" <newshound2@digitalmars.com> wrote in message 
>> news:i0nula$bk7$1@digitalmars.com...
>>> Nick Sabalausky wrote:
>>>> I didn't see any of the glitchiness or google-translate stuff that 
>>>> other people saw (on IE7, FF2, or Iron). Although, from the 
>>>> screenshot someone else posted of the translate-bar, I'm glad it's 
>>>> not showing up for me. (I really wish people would stop loading up 
>>>> their pages with Google's crap.)
>>> I like the translate widget! I've always been enamored with the idea 
>>> of a universal translator.
>>
>> There are browser plugins and websites that can handle translation of 
>> *any* page, not just pages that the page author has manually embedded 
>> it into. And they do it without gunking up the page with unnecessary 
>> JS bloat that not everyone's going to need.
> 
> I understand your point, I just like to have it right there, and not 
> have to go get toolbars and plugins for every browser I use. Also, 
> nobody ever complained about it before - why now is it suddenly an issue?

The screen real estate allocated to translation is too large. You should 
move it to a less prominent place and make the font smaller. That goes 
about "discuss on wiki" - the font is too large!

Andrei
July 04, 2010
Re: D web site facelift
On Sat, 03 Jul 2010 20:57:42 +0300, Jérôme M. Berger <jeberger@free.fr>  
wrote:

> 	Actually, browsers do both. For example in Firefox, you can go to
> Edit->Preferences->Content on Linux (or Tools->Preferences->Contents
> on Windows) and you have a pair of fields called "Default Font" and
> "Default Font Size" which allow setting a default font. Browsers
> have had this feature since I started using the web in 96. Since a
> lot of web sites force their own fonts, browsers have added more
> recently the ability to zoom on a page (and for some browsers, you
> can even remember the zoom level on a page-by-page basis). But this
> zoom function is mostly a hack to work around poorly designed web sites.

Thanks, forgot about that one. I guess that creates the dilemma of either  
making your website honor custom settings, or get it to look the same on  
all browsers. I guess d-programming-language.org uses relative font sizes,  
otherwise there wouldn't be so many contradicting complaints about the  
font being either too small or too large...

-- 
Best regards,
 Vladimir                            mailto:vladimir@thecybershadow.net
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