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March 09, 2011
Re: Google Summer of Code 2011 application
On 08/03/2011 19:37, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
> I just submitted an application for GSoC 2011 on behalf of Digital Mars.
> Please review and contribute to the project ideas page:
>
> http://prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?GSOC_2011_Ideas
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Andrei

I've added two ideas in the IDE category, for Eclipse. (dunno why this 
NG message wasn't sent earlier)


I was thinking if anything related to debugger integration could be 
added, but I suspect (from what I recall from my conversations with Ary 
a long time ago) that adding Eclipse support for debugger should be 
fairly easy (and particularly a lot of code might from Descent might be 
reusable, since this is not much related to semantic analysis).

Instead, the greatest effort comes from debugger support itself. In 
Linux OSes the situation is fine, gdb works well, but in Windows things 
are not so good. There is the ddbg debugger but it is no longer 
maintained (I'm not sure how good it still is); there is Mago the Visual 
D debugger, but from what I understand it can't properly be used from 
the command line (and thus be integrated with other IDEs); and there's 
gdb for windows, but that requires compiling and using GDC, which 
apparently has a host of issues and problems as well;

I wonder what is the best way to address these issues. I definitely hope 
the Windows platform doesn't further become a second-rate target for D 
development.

-- 
Bruno Medeiros - Software Engineer
March 09, 2011
Re: Google Summer of Code 2011 application
On 2011-03-09 12:12, %u wrote:
>> I think the advantage of gtk or Qt is people can reinvest previous
> knowledge of the framework. (I mean, they are cross-language in
> addition to be cross-platform ;-) I would personly prefere a clearly
> designed D-specific GUI system than gtk's huge mess. (Dunno about
> Qt, people seem to find it far better designed, but recent
> events...)
>> Denis
>
> There's something I absolutely ***HATE*** about Gtk, and it's the
> fact that the controls aren't real controls: The buttons don't fade
> the way they're supposed to in Windows 7, because they aren't even
> buttons in the first place. (They're just rectangles drawn to _look_
> like buttons, but they fail at imitating them.)

I feel exactly the same.

> Maybe I'm OCD, but I just can't stand developing with Gtk. :(


-- 
/Jacob Carlborg
March 09, 2011
Re: Google Summer of Code 2011 application
On 2011-03-09 11:55, spir wrote:
> On 03/09/2011 11:46 AM, Jacob Carlborg wrote:
>> On 2011-03-09 11:11, Trass3r wrote:
>>>> How about a GUI library. Probably helping with an already existing one,
>>>> DWT for example.
>>>
>>> Good idea, but rather improve GtkD or QtD.
>>
>> Too bad that's the general opinion people seem to have about GUI
>> libraries. I
>> don't understand what they don't like about DWT.
>
> I think the advantage of gtk or Qt is people can reinvest previous
> knowledge of the framework. (I mean, they are cross-language in addition
> to be cross-platform ;-) I would personly prefere a clearly designed
> D-specific GUI system than gtk's huge mess. (Dunno about Qt, people seem
> to find it far better designed, but recent events...)
>
> Denis

Since DWT is a port of SWT people can reinvest previous knowledge there 
as well. In fact, that's what I did. I can also add that Java is 
probably the language that most looks like D, syntactically. You don't 
have to learn some kind of object oriented wrapper that GtkD possibly uses.

-- 
/Jacob Carlborg
March 09, 2011
Re: Google Summer of Code 2011 application
On 2011-03-09 13:09, Daniel Gibson wrote:
> Am 09.03.2011 09:39, schrieb Jacob Carlborg:
>> On 2011-03-09 00:14, Daniel Gibson wrote:
>>> Am 08.03.2011 20:37, schrieb Andrei Alexandrescu:
>>>> I just submitted an application for GSoC 2011 on behalf of Digital
>>>> Mars.
>>>> Please review and contribute to the project ideas page:
>>>>
>>>> http://prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?GSOC_2011_Ideas
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Andrei
>>>
>>> Two (ok, maybe three) IDE related ideas:
>>>
>>> 1. integration of the profiler (use profilers output to directly jump to
>>> related sections in the code, mark time-intensive sections, stuff like
>>> that)
>>>
>>> 2. possibility to show assembly code from (de-)compiled executable
>>> inline in source so it's easier for developers who don't know much
>>> assembly language to understand how much machine code is generated by
>>> their code, possibly creating bottlenecks from harmless-looking
>>> statements etc.
>>>
>>> 3. Any work on IDEs should be for cross-platform IDEs, maybe eclipse DDT
>>> or codeblocks. Or maybe somebody could port D-IDE (d-ide.sf.net), which
>>> is pretty good as far as I know, to mono so it can be used on other
>>> platforms than windows?
>>
>> Wouldn't it be better to use a platform independent GUI library.
>
> When starting from scratch - certainly.
> But if D-IDE should be improved/ported - which currently uses .Net -
> mono is probably the best choice (better than rewriting it completely).
> Or do you think it should be ported to Qyoto (Qt for C#) or GTK# or
> something like that for a more native look and feel?

Sorry, I assumed it was written in D, don't why I got that from.

> And if some other IDE should be improved (probably it should be
> discussed what specific IDE this should be anyway) then *please* improve
> a cross-platform IDE like eclipse DDT or codeblocks (and not, e.g.
> Visual D or Posedion, because those are only available on Windows anyway).
>
> Something else to consider: For improvements-of-existing-IDEs the
> current IDE developers should probably be involved as mentors.
>
> Cheers,
> - Daniel


-- 
/Jacob Carlborg
March 09, 2011
Re: Google Summer of Code 2011 application
On Wed, 09 Mar 2011 04:37:43 +0900, Andrei Alexandrescu  
<SeeWebsiteForEmail@erdani.org> wrote:

> I just submitted an application for GSoC 2011 on behalf of Digital Mars.  
> Please review and contribute to the project ideas page:
>
> http://prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?GSOC_2011_Ideas
>

> Bindings to popular IPC/RPC protocols such as Protocol Buffers and  
> Apache Thrift
>
> Key Skills: Intimate knowledge of cross-machine communication protocols. 
> Large-scale programming using D requires bindings to cross-machine and  
> cross-language communication protocols. Such include Google's  Protocol  
> Buffers,  Apache Thrift, and others. D's standard library currently  
> includes no such protocol implementation. Providing such would motivate  
> adoption of D for large-scale development.

Protocol Buffers and Thrift need code generation using IDL unlike  
MessagePack, BERT, etc.
Such protocols are acceptable to Phobos?
March 09, 2011
Re: Google Summer of Code 2011 application
On 2011-03-09 13:30, Bruno Medeiros wrote:
> On 08/03/2011 19:37, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
>> I just submitted an application for GSoC 2011 on behalf of Digital Mars.
>> Please review and contribute to the project ideas page:
>>
>> http://prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?GSOC_2011_Ideas
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Andrei
>
> I've added two ideas in the IDE category, for Eclipse. (dunno why this
> NG message wasn't sent earlier)
>
>
> I was thinking if anything related to debugger integration could be
> added, but I suspect (from what I recall from my conversations with Ary
> a long time ago) that adding Eclipse support for debugger should be
> fairly easy (and particularly a lot of code might from Descent might be
> reusable, since this is not much related to semantic analysis).
>
> Instead, the greatest effort comes from debugger support itself. In
> Linux OSes the situation is fine, gdb works well, but in Windows things
> are not so good. There is the ddbg debugger but it is no longer
> maintained (I'm not sure how good it still is); there is Mago the Visual
> D debugger, but from what I understand it can't properly be used from
> the command line (and thus be integrated with other IDEs); and there's
> gdb for windows, but that requires compiling and using GDC, which
> apparently has a host of issues and problems as well;
>
> I wonder what is the best way to address these issues. I definitely hope
> the Windows platform doesn't further become a second-rate target for D
> development.
>

GDB doesn't work on Mac OS X as well as it does on Linux. Anything 
related to line number won't work. DMD still can't output the correct 
DWARF info on Mac OS X.

-- 
/Jacob Carlborg
March 09, 2011
Re: Google Summer of Code 2011 application
On 3/9/11 1:24 AM, Jacob Carlborg wrote:
> On 2011-03-08 20:37, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
>> I just submitted an application for GSoC 2011 on behalf of Digital Mars.
>> Please review and contribute to the project ideas page:
>>
>> http://prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?GSOC_2011_Ideas
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Andrei
>
> How about a GUI library. Probably helping with an already existing one,
> DWT for example.

Ideally we'd get the authors of the respective libraries weigh in to 
assess what help they need.

Andrei
March 09, 2011
Re: Google Summer of Code 2011 application
On 3/9/11, Bruno Medeiros <brunodomedeiros+spam@com.gmail> wrote:
> but that requires compiling and using GDC, which
> apparently has a host of issues and problems as well;

It doesn't have much building problems anymore. There's a couple of
patches that need to be applied, but everything is described here:
https://gist.github.com/857381

I've successfully used GDB as well. I pass the -g flag for debug
symbols, and it works fine this way when loading the exe in GDB.
March 09, 2011
Re: Google Summer of Code 2011 application
On Wed, 09 Mar 2011 04:37:43 +0900, Andrei Alexandrescu  
<SeeWebsiteForEmail@erdani.org> wrote:

> I just submitted an application for GSoC 2011 on behalf of Digital Mars.  
> Please review and contribute to the project ideas page:
>
> http://prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?GSOC_2011_Ideas
>

> Networking

I think high level networking is a part of IO.
But unfortunately, Phobos does not have IO model.
Does this idea include new IO model discussion?
March 09, 2011
Re: Google Summer of Code 2011 application
On 3/9/11 7:34 AM, Masahiro Nakagawa wrote:
> On Wed, 09 Mar 2011 04:37:43 +0900, Andrei Alexandrescu 
> <SeeWebsiteForEmail@erdani.org> wrote:
> 
>> I just submitted an application for GSoC 2011 on behalf of Digital 
>> Mars. Please review and contribute to the project ideas page:
>>
>> http://prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?GSOC_2011_Ideas
>>
> 
>> Bindings to popular IPC/RPC protocols such as Protocol Buffers and 
>> Apache Thrift
>>
>> Key Skills: Intimate knowledge of cross-machine communication 
>> protocols.Large-scale programming using D requires bindings to 
>> cross-machine and cross-language communication protocols. Such include 
>> Google's Protocol Buffers, Apache Thrift, and others. D's standard 
>> library currently includes no such protocol implementation. Providing 
>> such would motivate adoption of D for large-scale development.
> 
> Protocol Buffers and Thrift need code generation using IDL unlike 
> MessagePack, BERT, etc.
> Such protocols are acceptable to Phobos?

I'm not sure how to go about the IDL compilers themselves. What I can do
is to try to add D generation to Thrift if someone implements it.

Andrei
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