A lot of work is going on around D. However I can't really fit the pieces together to see how everything works.

Bad quality
--------------

One problem is the large amount of obsolete data ( http://www.dsource.org/projects/dmdfe )

Dsource is The place for D projects. The problem with dsource is if you're a serious professional and need professional quality libraries and tools, dsource does nothing in the way of supporting these types of users. The sections are filled with small hobby projects such as http://www.dsource.org/projects/libcalc. What I'm looking for is somehing that emphasizes the names of "important" projects. For example standard parallel/concurrency/server/socket/vfs libraries are a first class priority. It takes a day to browse through the list of mediocre crap.

Status reports
------------------

http://www.dsource.org/projects/dmd/roadmap is empty. http://www.digitalmars.com/d/2.0/future.html is totally uninformative. This is a really terrible joke. Where is the list of incompatibilities between TDPL and DMD/LDC/GDC? Why don't libraries come with [alpha], [beta], [stable] tags. It's hard to choose between 5 different implementations if you need to ask personally from the authors via IRC. Take a look at:
http://techbase.kde.org/Schedules
http://techbase.kde.org/Schedules/KDE4/4.7_Feature_Plan
http://techbase.kde.org/Schedules/Extragear

Where is the status reports of feature proposals? I know bugzilla contains a lot of data, but it gives no interface to quickly analyze the latest feature changes. Newsgroup threads often discuss useless things (CRT displays and whether black-on-white is better than white-on-black in a feature proposal threads). Nick Sabalausky and Walter Bright are worst trolls in this regard, hijacking every thread to spread off-topic talk.

I've tried to advertise D to colleagues. What they're interested in is a) library and tool support b) quality of apidocs c) progress reports (milestones, release history, other plans) d) mailist list quality. Currently my answers have been a) it's getting better, don't know when b) it's getting better, don't know when and how c) don't know d) digitalmars.d is full of trolls and off-topic stuff, the closed mailing lists are better, but don't have much traffic. Typical conclusion is, D is too immature.

"jasonw" <user@webmails.org> wrote in message news:ilp2rt$1fs5$1@digitalmars.com...
>
> Newsgroup threads often discuss useless things (CRT displays and whether black-on-white is better than white-on-black in a feature proposal threads). Nick Sabalausky and Walter Bright are worst trolls in this regard, hijacking every thread to spread off-topic talk.
>

Hooray! The discussion nazis have arrived! Time to celebrate: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idBh1WMG8Vk Doo dee doot

I've seen stupid shit in the internet, but people crying over what gets discussed is by far the stupidest.

Browncoats forever! Gorram reevers! Tribute? You steal men's souls and make them your slaves! I ate what? It's a laser, but in solid, not gaseous form. Hummana hummana hummana. Klaatu barada nikto. Yes, I was dead, but I'm better now. Nibbled to death by cats. Colorful * happy * material * go! Shinigami love apples. I will take a potato chip...AND EAT IT! Your moosey fate! Just don't go wrecking your automail! Autowash? Big boom, big baaadaaa boom! You better tell me who you are? You must have bananas in your ears!

http://digitalmars.com/d/2.0/changelog.html

http://www.prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?LanguageDevel

== Quote from jasonw (user@webmails.org)'s article
> A lot of work is going on around D. However I can't really fit the pieces
together to see how everything works.

> I've tried to advertise D to colleagues. What they're interested in is a)
library and tool support b) quality of apidocs c) progress reports (milestones,
release history, other plans) d) mailist list quality. Currently my answers have
been a) it's getting better, don't know when b) it's getting better, don't know
when and how c) don't know d) digitalmars.d is full of trolls and off-topic stuff,
the closed mailing lists are better, but don't have much traffic. Typical
conclusion is, D is too immature.


Although I disagree with the way you chose to express your frustration, I sympathize with some of what you said nonetheless.  I often feel the same way about the organization and even, what feels like, a lack of direction (except you VisualD guy).


I've just recently started using D to fill the niche between C and C#.  I believe it has strong qualities but there are a lot of obstacles to overcome unrelated to the language itself.


If it's any consolation, I can provide a shameless plug from a fellow pragmatist: http://www.xmind.net/share/nicholasr/d/


I built it to use at work and to eventually show my boss, who would balk if shown the current state of documentation.


I'd be curious to know the number of professionals using D versus students/researchers/hobbyists (i.e. non-work-related projects).  I imagine the lack of a stable IDE prevents a lot of commercial-level developers from coming over too.

On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 11:18 PM, Nick Sabalausky <a@a.a> wrote:

> "jasonw" <user@webmails.org> wrote in message news:ilp2rt$1fs5$1@digitalmars.com...
> >
> > Newsgroup threads often discuss useless things (CRT displays and whether black-on-white is better than white-on-black in a feature proposal threads). Nick Sabalausky and Walter Bright are worst trolls in this regard, hijacking every thread to spread off-topic talk.
> >
>
> Hooray! The discussion nazis have arrived! Time to celebrate: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idBh1WMG8Vk Doo dee doot
>
> I've seen stupid shit in the internet, but people crying over what gets discussed is by far the stupidest.
>
> Browncoats forever! Gorram reevers! Tribute? You steal men's souls and make
> them your slaves! I ate what? It's a laser, but in solid, not gaseous form.
> Hummana hummana hummana. Klaatu barada nikto. Yes, I was dead, but I'm
> better now. Nibbled to death by cats. Colorful * happy * material * go!
> Shinigami love apples. I will take a potato chip...AND EAT IT! Your moosey
> fate! Just don't go wrecking your automail! Autowash? Big boom, big
> baaadaaa
> boom! You better tell me who you are? You must have bananas in your ears!
>
>
>

I think jasonw forgot to mention that you are also the biggest dickhead here.

On Tuesday 15 March 2011 23:14:09 Caligo wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 11:18 PM, Nick Sabalausky <a@a.a> wrote:
> > "jasonw" <user@webmails.org> wrote in message news:ilp2rt$1fs5$1@digitalmars.com...
> > 
> > > Newsgroup threads often discuss useless things (CRT displays and whether black-on-white is better than white-on-black in a feature proposal threads). Nick Sabalausky and Walter Bright are worst trolls in this regard, hijacking every thread to spread off-topic talk.
> > 
> > Hooray! The discussion nazis have arrived! Time to celebrate: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idBh1WMG8Vk Doo dee doot
> > 
> > I've seen stupid shit in the internet, but people crying over what gets discussed is by far the stupidest.
> > 
> > Browncoats forever! Gorram reevers! Tribute? You steal men's souls and
> > make them your slaves! I ate what? It's a laser, but in solid, not
> > gaseous form. Hummana hummana hummana. Klaatu barada nikto. Yes, I was
> > dead, but I'm better now. Nibbled to death by cats. Colorful * happy *
> > material * go! Shinigami love apples. I will take a potato chip...AND
> > EAT IT! Your moosey fate! Just don't go wrecking your automail!
> > Autowash? Big boom, big baaadaaa
> > boom! You better tell me who you are? You must have bananas in your ears!
> 
> I think jasonw forgot to mention that you are also the biggest dickhead here.

Let's try to be civil please (as in everyone, not just Caligo or Nick or whoever). There has been far too much nastiness and childishness in this newsgroup over the last 24 hours or so. It's not helping anything.

And while I think that jasonw was a bit extreme in how he phrased his grievances, he does have some valid points (though I'd argue that the part that Nick is complaining about is not one of them).

- Jonathan M Davis

"Caligo" <iteronvexor@gmail.com> wrote in message news:mailman.2533.1300256058.4748.digitalmars-d@puremagic.com...
> On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 11:18 PM, Nick Sabalausky <a@a.a> wrote:
>
>> "jasonw" <user@webmails.org> wrote in message news:ilp2rt$1fs5$1@digitalmars.com...
>> >
>> > Newsgroup threads often discuss useless things (CRT displays and
>> > whether
>> > black-on-white is better than white-on-black in a feature proposal
>> > threads). Nick Sabalausky and Walter Bright are worst trolls in this
>> > regard, hijacking every thread to spread off-topic talk.
>> >
>>
>> Hooray! The discussion nazis have arrived! Time to celebrate: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idBh1WMG8Vk Doo dee doot
>>
>> I've seen stupid shit in the internet, but people crying over what gets discussed is by far the stupidest.
>>
>> Browncoats forever! Gorram reevers! Tribute? You steal men's souls and
>> make
>> them your slaves! I ate what? It's a laser, but in solid, not gaseous
>> form.
>> Hummana hummana hummana. Klaatu barada nikto. Yes, I was dead, but I'm
>> better now. Nibbled to death by cats. Colorful * happy * material * go!
>> Shinigami love apples. I will take a potato chip...AND EAT IT! Your
>> moosey
>> fate! Just don't go wrecking your automail! Autowash? Big boom, big
>> baaadaaa
>> boom! You better tell me who you are? You must have bananas in your ears!
>>
>>
>>
>
> I think jasonw forgot to mention that you are also the biggest dickhead here.
>

That's certainly true. After all, considering how I frequently call people in here names like "dickhead", that quite likely does makes me the rudest, most immature person here. You'd certainly never do such a childish thing, would you?

On 16/03/11 1:13 AM, jasonw wrote:
> A lot of work is going on around D. However I can't really fit the pieces together to see how everything works.
>
> Bad quality
> --------------
>
> One problem is the large amount of obsolete data ( http://www.dsource.org/projects/dmdfe )
>
> Dsource is The place for D projects...

dsource has become a bit of a graveyard since D2. I only go there to stay up to date with Derelict.

github seems to be building up its number of D project however.

https://github.com/languages/D


> Status reports
> ------------------
>
> http://www.dsource.org/projects/dmd/roadmap is empty. http://www.digitalmars.com/d/2.0/future.html is totally uninformative. This is a really terrible joke. Where is the list of incompatibilities between TDPL and DMD/LDC/GDC? Why don't libraries come with [alpha], [beta], [stable] tags. It's hard to choose between 5 different implementations if you need to ask personally from the authors via IRC. Take a look at:
> http://techbase.kde.org/Schedules
> http://techbase.kde.org/Schedules/KDE4/4.7_Feature_Plan
> http://techbase.kde.org/Schedules/Extragear
>
> Where is the status reports of feature proposals?

Comparing D to KDE is a bit unfair due to the disparity in manpower, but yes, documentation and direction are sorely missing from D. There's still no good tutorials and I think the reason for that is because of the poor documentation. No one knows how the language is supposed to work, so they can't write tutorials!

Nick Sabalausky Wrote:

> "Caligo" <iteronvexor@gmail.com> wrote in message news:mailman.2533.1300256058.4748.digitalmars-d@puremagic.com...
> > On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 11:18 PM, Nick Sabalausky <a@a.a> wrote:
> >
> >> "jasonw" <user@webmails.org> wrote in message news:ilp2rt$1fs5$1@digitalmars.com...
> >> >
> >> > Newsgroup threads often discuss useless things (CRT displays and
> >> > whether
> >> > black-on-white is better than white-on-black in a feature proposal
> >> > threads). Nick Sabalausky and Walter Bright are worst trolls in this
> >> > regard, hijacking every thread to spread off-topic talk.
> >> >
> >>
> >> Hooray! The discussion nazis have arrived! Time to celebrate: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idBh1WMG8Vk Doo dee doot
> >>
> >> I've seen stupid shit in the internet, but people crying over what gets discussed is by far the stupidest.
> >>
> >> Browncoats forever! Gorram reevers! Tribute? You steal men's souls and
> >> make
> >> them your slaves! I ate what? It's a laser, but in solid, not gaseous
> >> form.
> >> Hummana hummana hummana. Klaatu barada nikto. Yes, I was dead, but I'm
> >> better now. Nibbled to death by cats. Colorful * happy * material * go!
> >> Shinigami love apples. I will take a potato chip...AND EAT IT! Your
> >> moosey
> >> fate! Just don't go wrecking your automail! Autowash? Big boom, big
> >> baaadaaa
> >> boom! You better tell me who you are? You must have bananas in your ears!
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > I think jasonw forgot to mention that you are also the biggest dickhead here.
> >
> 
> That's certainly true. After all, considering how I frequently call people in here names like "dickhead", that quite likely does makes me the rudest, most immature person here. You'd certainly never do such a childish thing, would you?
> 
> 
> 

While I disagree with the direct attacks and poor phrasing, there is a point in what the OP says.
People have the freedom to talk about whatever floats their boat but I do hope that as a courtesy to others they would at least use a descriptive subject line.
It is quite annoying to me and wasting my time when I'm trying to read through a topic I'm interested in which is interspersed with a dozen other off-topic subjects which I personally am not interested in.

Another way to look at this is that good discussion points tend to get lost in the 'background noise' which makes the discussions less effective.

On 16/03/11 02.13, jasonw wrote:
> A lot of work is going on around D. However I can't really fit the pieces together to see how everything works.
>
> Bad quality
> --------------
>
> One problem is the large amount of obsolete data ( http://www.dsource.org/projects/dmdfe )
>
> Dsource is The place for D projects. The problem with dsource is if you're a serious professional and need professional quality libraries and tools, dsource does nothing in the way of supporting these types of users. The sections are filled with small hobby projects such as http://www.dsource.org/projects/libcalc. What I'm looking for is somehing that emphasizes the names of "important" projects. For example standard parallel/concurrency/server/socket/vfs libraries are a first class priority. It takes a day to browse through the list of mediocre crap.

Actually I once contacted the admin of dsource because I had the same concerns as you have. He gave me svn access to the code of the dsource site pretty quickly for me to fix stuff (or the a new version of it he was working on).

Unfortunately I never got around to submitting anything back. But I'm sure that he will be just as welcoming to you I you offer your help :)

/Jonas